PSA RRG Privileged Dog owners

3/30/24 - Went to Hole in the wall - Hole New World to climb yesterday and arrived just after another group of 4 or 5 ish people. I asked what route they were planning on hitting 1st and one guy said A Hole New World. I saw a dog and heard at least one other.  We like dogs and don't mind them at crags if they don't cause issues or the owners are understanding.  I asked how many and they said 4. Said they were nice. So I let mine start to approach the one closest which was a medium sized white dog and it growled at him. I asked if they would leash all their dogs. One guy said I'm not leashing mine. Then a girl said I didn't bring my dog all the way out here just to tie it up. I said well they should be leashed here. We got bad looks and we just turned around and left. 

Only one person has ticked that route on here yesterday and I can't say for sure any of the dogs belonged to this person.  So I'll leave it at that.

If any of the group sees this that where there yesterday, please familiarize yourself with rules when visiting climbing areas.  Be more friendly to your fellow climbers.  

I'll give you a little help.

https://rrgcc.org/rrg-info/any

Dogs must be leashed or under control of their owners.

No dog is ever 100% under control of their owner no matter how good it is, things can happen.

Leashes are to dogs what helmets are to humans.

those dogs were necessary props to get extra clicks. 

Funny they were climbing A Hole.

Hi Alan, 

Surely you know what you're getting into here...or is this a troll?

It seems like you and these other owners just have different ideas about what "under control" looks like.  

You went to the crag with your dog.  There were some people there with their dogs.  They had one idea of what under control is like, and you had another.  The law was unhelpfull.  You made a risk assessment and left.  Case closed. 

The irony, in the context of MP and previous dog threads, is that you planned to spend the day at the crag with your dog.  So this is a disagreement between different sets of "entitled dog owners" about what constitues control, not a thread about dogs at crags in general.

For the unitiated, I am pasionately pro-dog, but have come to understand that my beloved cur, Luna, does not belong at crags, because she is so stressed when we are there.  With the right dog at the right crag, no problem, bring your beasts. 

We might get past 50 pages with this one...

B

Was the psa that you are an entitled dog owner? I'm not real sure what you're getting at here. 

Dogs must be leashed or under control of their owners.

One dog growled and you asked them all to leash their dogs. Dogs will growl to establish dominance. You can ask them to leash, they can say no. It's unclear if the one dog growling was just establishing dominance, of if there was a real risk of the other 4 dogs being a pack and attacking your dog. You didn't know so you made the right decision to leave, but maybe those dog owners may know that dog will growl, and it's never gone beyond that so they don't feel the dogs are out of control.

I was with Alan and I had my dog too which is a 9 lb chihuahua. He frequently gets compliments as being a great crag dog because he just lays under a blanket and most people don’t know he’s there unless I point him out.

We had the right to be in the space and to share said space and I don’t think it’s a great idea to introduce a 9 lb dog to 4-5 70-80 pound dogs at 1 time. I’ve seen my little dog snap at dogs that stay in his face for too long or don’t stop sniffing him. Should I trust that many strangers that say ‘my dogs fine, it’s not like he’s going to hurt your dog’ when I also know about dog fights at crags, had a friend that had her chihuahua get bit by someones dog at the crag that said their dog was good with other dogs and have seen dogs become aggressive at crags. I’m super protective of my dog and keep him close to me almost always to prevent any kind of encounter but this was too much there were dogs running everywhere and nobody was controlling any of them. That is not sharing a space based on changing circumstances at the crag. It’s 100% not cool but then again I was cool to leave because I don’t want to share space with inconsiderate people like that. 

Carrie Ballardwrote:

I was with Alan and I had my dog too which is a 9 lb chihuahua. He frequently gets compliments as being a great crag dog because he just lays under a blanket and most people don’t know he’s there unless I point him out.

We had the right to be in the space and to share said space and I don’t think it’s a great idea to introduce a 9 lb dog to 4-5 70-80 pound dogs at 1 time. I’ve seen my little dog snap at dogs that stay in his face for too long or don’t stop sniffing him. Should I trust that many strangers that say ‘my dogs fine, it’s not like he’s going to hurt your dog’ when I also know about dog fights at crags, had a friend that had her chihuahua get bit by someones dog at the crag that said their dog was good with other dogs and have seen dogs become aggressive at crags. I’m super protective of my dog and keep him close to me almost always to prevent any kind of encounter but this was too much there were dogs running everywhere and nobody was controlling any of them. That is not sharing a space based on changing circumstances at the crag. It’s 100% not cool but then again I was cool to leave because I don’t want to share space with inconsiderate people like that. 

Don’t ya think the other people also had a “right” to be in said space?

Tradibanwrote:

Don’t ya think the other people also had a “right” to be in said space?

Of coarse they do. How do you decide what’s fair other then we all didn’t go to a dog park we came out to climb….

I don’t care what you say, if your dog is off leash and you are climbing or belaying, then you DON’T have control over them. Period.

If you’re at a crag you should have your pet leashed! It’s risking your dog, any other dog or human that enteres the scene, and it risks you and your climber if you’re on belay.

It’s nonsense like this that makes people hate animals at the wall.

But if someone asks you to leash your animal and you tell them to, essentially, pound sand, then you’re just a rude asshole. Period. 

Tradibanwrote:

Leashes are to dogs what helmets are to humans.

A leash is a rope with a noose at both ends.

Yes, wholeheartedly agree, RRG has way too many entitled dog owners, who don’t see a problem with their dog’s behavior. And at busy crags in peak season it becomes a problem.

When I meet people with well-behaved dogs I go out of my way to compliment them on their pooch’s exceptional behavior. Those people/dogs definitely do exist. Met one at the Zoo yesterday, and at the Lode a few weeks back.

But they are in the minority. And most of the time you run into basically-good-but-untrained dogs that don’t do well with other basically-good-but-untrained dogs, and clueless owners who think their dog is not the problem.

I do hope that RRGCC will eventually come up with more defined leash rules for the coalition land, but also doubt that it would be enforceable.

Daniel Staffordwrote:

I don’t care what you say, if your dog is off leash and you are climbing or belaying, then you DON’T have control over them. Period.

If you’re at a crag you should have your pet leashed! It’s risking your dog, any other dog or human that enteres the scene, and it risks you and your climber if you’re on belay.

It’s nonsense like this that makes people hate animals at the wall.

But if someone asks you to leash your animal and you tell them to, essentially, pound sand, then you’re just a rude asshole. Period. 

This is the way.

Carrie Ballardwrote:

I was with Alan and I had my dog too which is a 9 lb chihuahua. He frequently gets compliments as being a great crag dog because he just lays under a blanket and most people don’t know he’s there unless I point him out.

We had the right to be in the space and to share said space and I don’t think it’s a great idea to introduce a 9 lb dog to 4-5 70-80 pound dogs at 1 time. I’ve seen my little dog snap at dogs that stay in his face for too long or don’t stop sniffing him. Should I trust that many strangers that say ‘my dogs fine, it’s not like he’s going to hurt your dog’ when I also know about dog fights at crags, had a friend that had her chihuahua get bit by someones dog at the crag that said their dog was good with other dogs and have seen dogs become aggressive at crags. I’m super protective of my dog and keep him close to me almost always to prevent any kind of encounter but this was too much there were dogs running everywhere and nobody was controlling any of them. That is not sharing a space based on changing circumstances at the crag. It’s 100% not cool but then again I was cool to leave because I don’t want to share space with inconsiderate people like that. 

So you're an entitled dog owner also! I think I'm getting the theme here, this is a place for entitled dog owners to bitch and moan together... my bad I'm out of the conversation. 

Alan and Carrie: No, you can not make someone else leash their dogs who doesn't want to (though you might prevail upon them to do so with diplomacy). I agree with the poster insinuating that it is you who are the dog owners acting privileged here. 

Carrie Ballardwrote:

Of coarse they do. How do you decide what’s fair other then we all didn’t go to a dog park we came out to climb….

Correct me if wrong but nothing happened here? So their dogs were “under control”, it was just your fear that they would become out of control. What’s “fair” is to wait until dogs are out of control to ask for leashes.

Jesse Linkhorn wrote:

This is a discrete rule.

What is a "discrete rule"?  Is that, like, your opinion, man?

Todd Berlier wrote:

Daniel Stafford--so well said.

just wanted to take this opportunity to post a pic of our new puppy, Ocean. Coming soon to a crag near you (on a leash, of course!)!

So cute! Would love to pet anywhere except the crag. Stay home if you cant find someone to watch him.

Alan Raderwrote:If any of the group sees this that where there yesterday, please familiarize yourself with rules when visiting climbing areas.  Be more friendly to your fellow climbers.  

I'll give you a little help.

https://rrgcc.org/rrg-info/any

Dogs must be leashed or under control of their owners.

Someone quick help!! This beast looked DIRECTLY at me and tried to SNIFF MY DOGS BUTT!!! we need more rules immediately!!! We barely got out of there alive!!! In fact the situation was so dangerous I couldn’t handle this in person I could barely typing this through shaking hands!!!

Psychotic to think the life of an animal should be spent either locked inside or tied to a tree because Alan wants to be able to climb a rock in the middle of the woods without a dog judging him. Private land or National Parks can dictate rules but public land is the only place dogs can be dogs as long as they aren’t aggressive. Sounds like the gym might be a less stressful environment for some here

Hopefully, this is not going to derail MP-bingo type of discourse

Post dated 4/1/2024 on Facebook - 'Red River Gorge Climbing' 

Dog daycare/boarding option for the Southern Region
Scooter's Station
Andrea Collins
606-560-9091
5814 HWY 399
Beattyville, KY 41311
Sugar2@scooterstation.net
https://www.facebook.com/Scooterstation.net/ 

PS After a few boarding sessions your dog will climb better than you.