People not giving a F$%k about wet rock. Wall Street, Moab

Mark Vigilwrote:

It's already a safe assumption that people who go to Wall Street to climb are idiots, because why would you go climbing six inches from a road?

Because the routes are fun? And it's more than 6". Hyperbole much?

grug gwrote:

I'm not sure this is a useful contribution at all. Any proposals or ideas?

Yeah, involve the land manager and get actual regulations on things that are important. 

I don’t think the land managers give a shit about Wall Street. In fact I think they would like an opportunity to shut it down due to all the people wandering around the highway and dogs getting killed etc.  People climbing on wet rock is the least of their concerns.

On the bright side, you can go down there once every four or five years and make it feel like an on site because the routes change so much. 

grug gwrote:

Was in Moab this last weekend (3/16) and it rained HARD Saturday and Saturday night. Went to do a hike on Corona arch Sunday (day after rain) and on the way out drove past Wall Street. Many parties were climbing. Belaying right next to massive puddles. I stopped and lectured them but it felt like I was just shouting into the wind. 

Should signs be set up along wall street stating "don't climb wet rock?". Feels bad man because the climbs on Wall Street have 100% changed in character over the last 10 years.

Is this just something I have to accept because its Moab's "gym" and move on with life? 

Try to think about it as the routes “evolving” instead of just “broken”. Everyone likes a new project!

In my experience it's been about 1/2 the people don't know it's wrong and 1/2 know and don't care.

A simple question like, Do you know what can happen when you climb on wet sandstone? Is all you need to start with.

For the 1/2 that say, No, I don't. Say, The wet rock is really weak and you can break off holds and make the route harder.

For the 1/2 that say, Yes. Say, Okay, I just wanted to make sure you knew you could break holds off and change the route.

IMO it's not worth getting in an argument that won't change anything. But I also want to say something because I'd regret it if I didn't. 1/2 the time the people may be appreciative and you could save a climb. But dicks will be dicks and you just let that go.

I've come to accept the flypaper theory of outdoor recreation these days.   A handful of climbs/hikes/peaks suck up the majority of people.   They are generally very nice climbs/hikes/peaks and it undoubtedly sucks both due to crowding as well as damage but it leaves everything else more sparsely populated than it otherwise would be.  In the PNW the Colchuck Lake/Enchantment-through-hike seems to be the destination for 90% of the instagram-hikers & cosplay-trailrunner crowd.  Its a bummer for sure but so many other, even nearby places, still offer relative solitude. The same must exist in the Moab area? 

The entire Moab area is the sacrifice zone for the rest of the desert now.  Everywhere within an hour of that blighted place is a shitshow.

P Bwrote:

Really hard to make the ethical decision when you just drove all the way down and woke up early expecting good weather.

No its not. If you’re having a hard time making the decision not to climb then you’re not ethical. 

Chad Millerwrote:

No its not. If you’re having a hard time making the decision not to climb then you’re not ethical. 

It must be tough being perfect

I don't think we have to be apathetic about this. Wall Street is an absolute treasure and should be protected. It shouldn't be to hard to get some signs erected. What climbers coalition covers the area? I'm sure people would donate a few bucks to get some signs. 

P Bwrote:

It must be tough being perfect

 Nobody's perfect.  In your case you have larger things to worry about.  If you know what your doing is unethical, selfish, and harmful but you still do it because you had to drive from Boulder to Moab and want to climb then you're not a good person.  

Adam blocwrote:

Some people do, look at all the 2 star limestone that people flock to in Vegas instead of 4 star hiking and being alone with their thoughts for a few hours.

Moab needs a similar alternative, maybe a gym with splitter cracks in all sizes, free PBR. A trad dad day care center if you will.

Hell, someone post up some sick buildering routes up the Kane Creek Excavators, those things are begging for FAs.

There's some genuinely good sport multis on Lake Mead Buttress now, but they're only there literally because visitors and locals alike *needed* a place to go when the sandstone was wet.

P B wrote:

I reread my post and could see this interpretation. To clarify the particular route I was interested in was dry and under an overhang. Hence the mixed feelings. But it had obviously rained so ultimately decided to pack it up and leave. I wouldn’t go so far as to say this decision makes me a bad person but to each their own

Ah!  I though you were climbing on wet sandstone in Moab knowing the damage it could cause. 

Chad Millerwrote:

Ah!  I though you were climbing on wet sandstone in Moab knowing the damage it could cause. 

Never! Just discussing the weakness of ethical decision making against invested time.

I like climbing on wet sandstone because the holds start to conform to my fingers better. Which reminds me of where the real climbing is at: in the gym. 

R K wrote:

Who’s going to fund this? This doesn’t sound like a sustainable idea, beyond the initial vanity of it. I recommend rethinking how to establish a lasting solution. 

Chad Millerwrote:

 Nobody's perfect.  In your case you have larger things to worry about.  If you know what your doing is unethical, selfish, and harmful but you still do it because you had to drive from Boulder to Moab and want to climb then you're not a good person.  

This. It's not even like the limestone options around are bad either!
My first trip to Red Rock flying across the country we climbed limestone the first day and burned a solid 30-45 minutes on assessments the next morning. It wasn't difficult to find other options, nor were they far away. People are just lazy and selfish. 

Note: I understand this thread is about Moab, but having plan B, C and D is like climbing planning 101. 

Andrew Gramwrote:

The entire Moab area is the sacrifice zone for the rest of the desert now.  Everywhere within an hour of that blighted place is a shitshow.

I've been hearing this from old friends who are in UT, one had a place there and ended up taking the money and running. Of course everything between Spanish Fork and N Ogden is pretty similar as far as unchecked sprawl and motor vehicle worship too.

I'm not joking - how do we get some signs on Wall Street?

grug gwrote:

I'm not joking - how do we get some signs on Wall Street?