Gription - Moe’s Valley broken hold

Came to scope in the morning to find a new break

Looks like that remaining flake is also about to go

Moe's gets hammered 24/7 365 days a year, rain or shine. Wet or dry you will see MFrs out there. I internally came to terms with it a while ago. Moes boulders are going to evolve over time. 

The whole place will probably get developed in a few years and it won't even matter.  

It's being absolutely destroyed by overcrowding. 100+ vehicles on weekend days and 80% are from CA, CO, NV, hell even TX AZ and NY these days. I guess they finished ruining their areas and decided to come do UT next. Bulldoze it and maybe they'll go home, the area is doomed with impending development regardless.

naw slc wrote:

It's being absolutely destroyed by overcrowding. 100+ vehicles on weekend days and 80% are from CA, CO, NV, hell even TX AZ and NY these days. I guess they finished ruining their areas and decided to come do UT next. Bulldoze it and maybe they'll go home, the area is doomed with impending development regardless.

Yeah its pretty sad. I hate to be a NIMBY but I see tons of out of state plates parked on the vegetation. Then you see the same people stomping around through the cryptobiotic soil and trudging through the bushes.

Its tempting to lecture them but it seems futile when every time I go there I see hoards of people doing the same shit. 

I've been thinking about this problem a lot and I think the most direct solution here is to drop all the boulder problems a couple V points (ie Gription is now V7). Might take a couple of seasons, but should significantly reduce use of the area.

That's so sad to see on such a classic problem. Don't get your hopes up given the track record of the "developers" in SW Utah. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if they paved a road up to the valley and plopped a luxury housing development on top of the bouldering area. They are already doing it in Green Valley, and there is no end to the greed around here.

Ultimately the best we can do is put up signage and get the word out in as many places as possible about proper etiquette regarding wet rock and environmental concerns. Regardless of whether this is a case of climbing on wet rock or not, we need to ditch the "24hr" rule. Assessing the soil/sand in the area several inches below the surface is a much better assessment of if the rock is dry enough. Just having a general rule or two is certainly part of the problem. Considering route aspect relative to the sun and the amount of precipitation are also rules we should be making more mainstream assessments. 

If you're a local to the area and you want to get away, I promise there is lots of bouldering around that doesn't see traffic, you just have to look for it. I have been less and less willing to develop/share anything new in the area on Mountain Project, because if areas like this and Garth gets bulldozed, I'm sure any new areas will eventually get disrespected just the same. 

naw slc wrote:

It's being absolutely destroyed by overcrowding. 100+ vehicles on weekend days and 80% are from CA, CO, NV, hell even TX AZ and NY these days. I guess they finished ruining their areas and decided to come do UT next. Bulldoze it and maybe they'll go home, the area is doomed with impending development regardless.

This kind of state-based tribalism is so funny to me. Isn't Moe's closer to Las Vegas than SLC? Who cares which group has crossed state lines? I feel like the only reason people make these points is that license plates tell you where someone's car is registered (not even where they live) and so you can easily identify people (but really cars) that are "different". Many climbers like to travel, and travel by car. No one picks a place to live and pledges to not cross state lines to visit other climbing areas.

It sucks that places are being destroyed, but stop pretending that it's only the "outsiders", in whatever nonsense way you define that, that are the problem.

It's not funny to me, since I can't climb at most local areas in my state without being surrounded by two dozen people from CO and CA at every problem. I'm glad you're enjoying it though. 

mike h wrote:

This kind of state-based tribalism is so funny to me. Isn't Moe's closer to Las Vegas than SLC? Who cares which group has crossed state lines? I feel like the only reason people make these points is that license plates tell you where someone's car is registered (not even where they live) and so you can easily identify people (but really cars) that are "different". Many climbers like to travel, and travel by car. No one picks a place to live and pledges to not cross state lines to visit other climbing areas.

It sucks that places are being destroyed, but stop pretending that it's only the "outsiders", in whatever nonsense way you define that, that are the problem.

It 100% is not Utah climbers doing this. I looked at your profile and I see 0 tics from Moe's or anywhere in the southwest desert so I don't think you should speak on the matter. 

Head down to Moe's/St George this spring and take a look for yourself. Go to the Moes parking lot and tell me which sprinter plates are parked on the crypto/vegetation. .

Maybe we should pack some epoxy in those cracks to preserve/reinforce the remaining hold? Looks like it would change significantly if it broke again + that's an important part of the crux. 

grug g wrote:

It 100% is not Utah climbers doing this. I looked at your profile and I see 0 tics from Moe's or anywhere in the southwest desert so I don't think you should speak on the matter. 

Head down to Moe's/St George this spring and take a look for yourself. Go to the Moes parking lot and tell me which sprinter plates are parked on the crypto/vegetation. .

Moe’s is definitely crowded by out of state climbers.  Shit, I live in CA but got a place St. George cause the area is amazing.  But I’ve seen plenty of locals (not climbers) driving their 4-wheelers off trail all over crypto despite Moe’s being closed to 4-wheelers.  One asshole pulled right up to Pink Lady in his Polaris.  Assholes come from all over is my only point.

I just find it sad that everyone seems to say 'f it, the place will be developed into luxury homes soon enough'.  

I've had many great times at Moe's.  I stayed in access trails, packed out trash, didn't camp at the trailhead and have green license plates!  No way can someone who doesn't live within a state boundary also be respectful.  

Either the 'gym to crag' initiatives from so many companies are totally worthless or people just don't care. I hate to say it, but a lot of people without a lot of experience outdoors don't know enough to care... Yet. A lot of us start out young and dumb. 

Nicholas Sarris wrote:

Moe’s is definitely crowded by out of state climbers.  Shit, I live in CA but got a place St. George cause the area is amazing.  But I’ve seen plenty of locals (not climbers) driving their 4-wheelers off trail all over crypto despite Moe’s being closed to 4-wheelers.  One asshole pulled right up to Pink Lady in his Polaris.  Assholes come from all over is my only point.

You’re correct that assholes come from all over. The most egregious thing I’ve seen at Moe’s was a St George local who drove his truck to Monkey Boy area.

That said, since you “got a place” in St George, you are quite literally part of the greatest threat facing St George climbing: suburban sprawl. Thanks a lot. 

Creed Archibald wrote:

You’re correct that assholes come from all over. The most egregious thing I’ve seen at Moe’s was a St George local who drove his truck to Monkey Boy area.

That said, since you “got a place” in St George, you are quite literally part of the greatest threat facing St George climbing: suburban sprawl. Thanks a lot. 

The problem is managing growth and limiting it to areas that won’t eliminate the beautiful areas of St.G.  St.G is going to continue to grow.  Hopefully, the politicians in St.G will see this, which is why organizations like SUCA are so important.   

Nicholas Sarris wrote:

The problem is managing growth and limiting it to areas that won’t eliminate the beautiful areas of St.G.  St.G is going to continue to grow.  Hopefully, the politicians in St.G will see this, which is why organizations like SUCA are so important.   

That’s a measured response to my fairly aggressive comment. I respect that.

I do want to push back on the idea that growth is inevitable. The locals could choose not to have 4-5 children. That would help. Non-locals could choose not to buy second homes. That would also help. 

Unfortunately its been a rough few years for access here in St. Geezy access wise. Garth, Shotgun Alley, and Soul Asylum are all places we've lost access too this year. With Moes and the mtn biking  over at Bear claw poppy access at stake with the northern corridor proposal. 

As far as people climbing on wet sandstone. I've personally yelled at plenty of folks climbing in Snow Canyon, Moes, and Chuckwalla. A vast majority of them are out of towners with a few exceptions being those who are gym to crag climbers. All the locals here just go climb limestone in the hills or the Arizona strip. I think the problem roots itself in a lack of education. People think that the 24/48 rule always applies. Even after a week straight of rain with no sunshine...