Best TR Anchor for Tree Lifespan?

Maybe a niche question, but I’ve climbed a bunch at TR only, no bolt crags and after only a few years I can already see the tree line start to erode. At high traffic places like Great Falls, VA there are decades of images showing this erosion, and at some of the crags you have to go 10m+ back to find a suitable tree.

Obviously bolts are the proper solution to the problem, but in places that don’t allow them is there a best practice to preserve the trees?Frictionless hitch, spanset, tree pro, etc? 

Tree protection, edge protection, and not walking all the way to the edge of the cliff (if possible) would be my suggestions. Padding the shit out of any piece of your anchor that touches the ground or trees will help to limit the amount of abrasion you are putting on your climbing area. 

Other options would be education for the local climbing community or talking to whoever the land manager is about sustainable climbing practices and improvements would be your next best option.

Cliff tops are pretty delicate ecosystems, just the traffic of people stomping around to set up TRs is going to cause significant erosion and interfere with the buildup of leaf litter (which is how most of the soil got there in the first place). Trees can take a lot of abuse if their root systems are healthy, but the converse is very much not true. 

If gear anchors are not an option, bolted anchors and designated trails to those anchors are going to be the real solutions, everything else is a half measure at best. If the land manager is not on board, it's going to be difficult and they might rather just ban climbing all together. Do you have a local climbing coalition? Land manager interactions and climber outreach are both easier with one so if not that's where I would start.

Thanks for the thoughts! I’ll look into the process for contacting the government land managers and local climbing coalitions and we’ll see how that goes. And if not I guess I’m buying bulk tree and edge protection.

Carolina Climbers Coalition is active in VA, and they have a lot of experience working with local land managers.  I'd reach out to them for advice first, and maybe pick up some 1+ inch webbing to use in the meantime.

Though maybe technically illegal, removable bolt anchors could be another option 

Mid-Atlantic climbers would be the local climber organization here.

https://www.midatlanticclimbers.org/ 

Bolts here are also potentially desirable here to keep long TR anchors out of hiking trails at the top of the cliff.

Yeah, having a TR setup with a static in such a touristy place is not great. I've had someone just walk up to my setup and start playing with the knots while someone was on the rope. Idk why but bolts are considered by some to be the end of the world even though in some places like aid box they would make a ton of sense.

This thread seems focused on Great Falls VA. Maybe it belongs in a different forum? Top Rope anchors in the park never require more than a 100’ section of static rope to build a V rig anchor. There is no place where you would need to cross the River Trail with your rope set up. And crossing the blue blazed trail is illegal as well.

Erosion at the top of the crags isn’t really a major issue here due to the top of the crags being, for the most part, rock. There are a few exceptions though not near any of the more popular routes. the bulk of the erosion and impact around the top of the cliffs is from hikers not staying on trails. Restoration projects are underway in the park.

Padding trees, at least the soft wood trees, is an important step to take that most climbers do lot. The NPS has asked me to pad trees informally (I work there regularly), though not currently part of the CUA permit nor part of the existing climbing management plan. The most notable damage I see is to soft wood trees, specifically the red cedars at the top of Romeos Ladder. There is going to be an updated management plan coming soon, so don’t be surprised if padding trees is included. There are numbers rock anchor options if you look for them.

Climbers make up a very small user group at the National Park. Bolts are not going to happen. And they shouldn’t. It’s a dead horse. This is the closest park to the nations capital and is both scenic and busy. It is doubtful NPS will litter the cliff line with bolts, and frankly they are unnecessary. It’s more likely, though doubtful, climbing will be canceled. But we do need to maintain a positive image. Just be thoughtful about and protect the trees you use to build your anchors. 

If all you have is rope and no padding for tree protection:

Lighterman's hitch > tension less hitch >>> anything else

I wonder if gear anchors would solve this problem. I’ve heard great falls rock doesn’t take gear because it’s shit rock though. I also have yet to meet a climber from NOVA who wasn’t a gym transplant and could actually place gear. It’s a bit of a stretch to say that climbers aren’t a problem with the current setup at great falls. Unless it’s the “hikers” who are playing hopscotch through the web of static cord at the top.

Bb Cc wrote:

A “tensionless” hitch still has tension. The slight-of-hand is that the 2nd and third loop around a “tree” have less tension than the first. On a smaller diameter tree you may want more “wraps” around, or use padding and tie a knot?

The purpose for a tensionless hitch is to preserve the strength of the rope not to preserve a tree (no tight bends to weaken the rope)

That's still going to be an improvement over a sling or a single loop of rope. Anyway the lightermans is just better in my opinion

Shovel Point, Palisade Head, and Carlton Peak in MN are very similar top-down crags with very similar erosion problems (Carlton peak especially).  

At shovel point, the MN Department of Natural Resources has roped off multiple areas for restoration and installed MASSIVE bolts that support multiple climbs at a time (Which isn't a solution at great falls): https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/107152066

To protect the trees, I grab a couple sticks the size of my finger and place them vertically as spacers between the cordelette and the tree so the cordelette isn't touching the bark. Works alright. It can sometimes be finicky if the anchor goes slack and is close to the edge, then the sticks can fall out. Otherwise a scrap piece of carpet or folded up towel is great.

I'm of the belief that it's not the gear on the tree that does the damage (pulling rope repeatedly around the trunk being the exception). So it doesn't matter much what sling or hitch is used. It's the walking on the root system that kills trees. That's why countless trees AT THE BASE OF THE CLIFF have died here (the Gunks) and elsewhere.

Wade Bankswrote:

I wonder if gear anchors would solve this problem. I’ve heard great falls rock doesn’t take gear because it’s shit rock though. I also have yet to meet a climber from NOVA who wasn’t a gym transplant and could actually place gear. It’s a bit of a stretch to say that climbers aren’t a problem with the current setup at great falls. Unless it’s the “hikers” who are playing hopscotch through the web of static cord at the top.

There  really isn’t a problem at Great Falls, other than maybe a lack of available information concerning climbing. Gear anchors  are not readily available on most routes. Where they are they work just fine. The stories about the rock quality are not true. Solid mica shist. We teach trad climbing there, there are multiple organizations offering SPI’s there. And there’s plenty of competent rock climber in the area.

also, just use a basic bowline with a pad on the trees. Friction hitch’s do more damage to the bark and people tend to circle trees when constructing them, comparing the soil and roots around the trees more. Don’t over think it. 

Tim, what do you typically use to pad the trees? Do you bring material like hard foam or old carpet samples? Or improvise with sticks or an empty pack or something?

James -wrote:

Tim, what do you typically use to pad the trees? Do you bring material like hard foam or old carpet samples? Or improvise with sticks or an empty pack or something?

I use cut up yoga mats. Any of your suggestions work just fine. 

both issues are solved with Bolts. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

both issues are solved with Bolts. 

And some spray paint for camo

Slack line tree protectors are worth the $20 IMO. The right size and material, easy to put/stay in place with velcro (instead of trying to use a sling or rope and hold up some material at the same time). Easy to roll up and transport.

Bb Cc wrote:

No it isn’t. A hitch around a tree by any other name is still a hitch around a tree. Sorry we are getting roped into this discussion. Save some trees, use padding or better rocks/gear when available.

I’m specifically talking about a scenario where you don’t have padding. Anyway nothing is going to save the tree on a high traffic route and like others said bolted anchors are clearly better if no gear anchor can be made