"I can't use a grigri" is a massive red flag?

In defiant opposition to safety and in the furtherance of the most bizarre blinking contest ever, I only look at my belay device while belaying. 

what apoge said. gri gri is great for lots of aplications but the op and a few other posters seem to have one up their butt. 

Dr Illogical wrote:

This is easily the best comment in the thread. I have no clear idea how to escalate in a response to it, so I just have to admit that you win at the Internet today. 

I take clearing a low bar as high praise. Thanks!

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

what apoge said. gri gri is great for lots of aplications but the op and a few other posters seem to have one up their butt. 

Along with the oversized Carabiner of course.   

I once saw a chick at the grocery store with fake mini biners in her ears. I went right out to my truck and got some of those gnarly OP  D shaped crabs with the stamped ridges in them. The really strong 25 KN rigs.  Gave them to the lady and told her she should always use full strength gear  She was super stoked and was going take them home and sterilize them and do her thing...  never did see her again but I hope it worked out for her. 

Healyjewrote:

In the end, it comes down to what percentage of the total demographic that puts on a harness and a grigri do you think can competently and reliably (i.e. is never going to drop anyone) belay with one. Factoring in competency, social distraction, awareness, and attention span I’d be absolutely amazed if that number ever crossed 50% and that might be generous.

Still the principle issue...

If I  repeat/quote myself over and over people will change their way of thinking right? 

I saw a good one yesterday,  a couple of beginners were toproping and when it came time to lower the climber from the top, the belayer couldn't get the grigri to lower so she asked for help because the grigri was broken. Apparently the climber had a death grip on the jugs at the top and wasn't actually weighting the rope. Damn the grigri!

Dr Illogical wrote:

Have to agree. I can use just about any belay device, including the grigri, without looking at it. I don't camp the cam at all on the grigri, I almost never even touch the device when feeding because I use the petzl method of lead belay. I can move my hand to normal feeding mode and to pay out quick slack without problem and without ever blocking the cam with my thumb. 

I honestly do not understand why people hate the grigri so much. It's really simple to use properly and quite safe when used properly. 

I think it's just the same old problem about adopting a new way of doing something. 

I hated self driving cars when they came out, claiming they'd make lazy drivers of us and always turned off any lane assist. But now I love it and use it constantly. I'm actually a much more relaxed driver with lane assist and adaptive cruise on. I don't stress. But it took awhile to get used to. Same thing goes for belay devices. I decided to just learn them all and get comfortable with them so I can always belay my leader with anything they want and feel comfortable doing it. 

I think you just have to adopt the mindset of a student and push the ego aside for a bit. 

"Self-Driving' cars de-skill a driver and will result in a removal of a current freedom we take for granted. For this reason they are to be resisted. Proper and competent use of a Gri Gri requires skilful practice and experience. I do not believe the comparison is an accurate one. So called self-driving cars negate accumulated driving experience and decision making. A fully automated self-driving car presupposes machine software engineering superior and safer than a human operator. A Gri Gri relies on a human operator and is not functionally programmable. Let's hope belaying is not delegated to an automated belaying assistant and is a stipulation before we go climbing in a dystopian National Park Service.

This thread is a dumpster fire that burns brighter than the sun change my mind....... Started at post #1.

Artem Vee wrote:

Has anybody here considered drugs? 

Suggestions? 

Dr Illogical wrote:

... Is that we're arguing about a non issue. And almost surely not changing anyone's mind about anything. But it passes the time. 

Oh, I’m not trying to change minds, merely pointing out the reality of the overall level of belaying competency of the entire demographic of grigri users isn’t so hot and a that a large percentage of climbers have more faith in the device than they do in the user which is ass-backwards from how it should be.

Dr Illogical wrote:

You miss the point entirely. The allegory is about the transition to new technology and adoption of it and our resistance to change. 

I believe you mean 'analogy.' I disagree. I question your acquiescence to a technology (self-driving cars) that will render a human skill obsolete. The operation of a grigri does not undermine the skill of belaying, but rather, if done competently, enhances it. The point that you fail to understand is that your example of comparing two entirely different skills is dis-analogous since their provenance is not the same. This is not a question of to be a luddite or not, but is a conceptual distinction that you appear to ignore. 

Colin Rowewrote:

…if done competently…

I’d be more inclined to take a hip belay from an uber-experienced person like healyje than most grigri wielding n00bs out there these days. Not because of the device/method, but because of the person using it.

apogeewrote:

I’d be more inclined to take a hip belay from an uber-experienced person like healyje than most grigri wielding n00bs out there these days. Not because of the device/method, but because of the person using it.

For the love of infant Jesus, film it, and, whatever you do, make sure it’s at a gym on your redpoint project.

I think i get a "hip belay" sometimes going for the first gear or bolt , sometimes bouldering too am i going to die?

Colonel Mustardwrote:

For the love of infant Jesus, film it, and, whatever you do, make sure it’s at a gym on your redpoint project.

Ha ha.  I bet he would if it meant folks here could let go of these angst-filled finger-pointing ABD threads.  Sign me up too!

Artem Vee wrote:

though I would rather take a gri gri belay from healyje than a hip belay from healyje if we’re going to be honest here.

Either would be fine and nbd, but one option does score more points than the other. 

Healy would burst into flames upon touching the cursed instrument

Frank Steinwrote:

Healy would burst into flames upon touching the cursed instrument

Or he owns a well used one and is trolling cause it's so easy? 

M Mwrote:

Or he owns a well used one and is trolling cause it's so easy? 

This has been a decades long crusade for Healy.