"I can't use a grigri" is a massive red flag?

Li Huwrote:

Common to all my gyms are GriGri, Jul original or Mega, one more I believe? Giga is not allowed.

Two allow ATC and prefer beginners to use ATC, but one is a 30-120 minute drive into downtown and the same back. The other was written up in “Climbing”, and I plan to go back when the staffers at the “location” get all their back pay for the “situation” that occurred there. 

They’re all great gyms, and I’ve learnt to use the GriGri effectively this past week. So, I’m hoping I’m no longer “that red flag person”   

Oh wow so no vergo or ATC pilot? I'm really liking both of them so far. The pilot isn't really a grigri replacement thought but good for single pitch sport. The vergo I'd be happy as a permanent grigri replacement. It does everything the grigri does but in a safer more ergonomic way. 

"Ability to use a ATC is insignificant, but a willful unwillingness to learn to use a ATC would be cause to dig deeper to ensure that such a choice is just personal preference and not a willful insistance to not develop skills based upon advances in understanding and technology from when they first learned it years before"

Funny...works that way, too! Go figure...

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Ability to handle a grigri is so far down on my list of important partner characteristics as to not even be, on the list. I don't care what sort of hat they wear, either. I don't even want to know what they do for a living, for sukfake.

Would be down on my list, except I’m a gym climber most of the time these days.

Since 1970, I’ve belayed with nearly every device, and I’m going to guess the QuiQui (entirely made up) device when it becomes the standard in a couple decades that many QuiQui advocates will be stating just how the GriGri is so … manual.   

A year ago, one of the MP members nearly had me committed for suggesting that I use a figure 8.   

Li Huwrote:

Would be down on my list, except I’m a gym climber most of the time these days.

Since 1970, I’ve belayed with nearly every device, and I’m going to guess the QuiQui (entirely made up) device when it becomes the standard in a couple decades that many QuiQui advocates will be stating just how the GriGri is so … manual.   

A year ago, one of the MP members nearly had me committed for suggesting that I use a figure 8.   

I still think the figure 8 in Sticht plate mode is the best for TR belay in those gyms with the stupid thick ropes and double wrapped anchor. Everything else is a chore to take up slack and lower. 

I guess yesterday’s yellow flags are today’s red flags.

My theory is that if someone has been climbing for 40 or so years and still alive and they have a long list of bad assed ascents and FA's  that  I  am not going to tell them how to belay, to wear a helmet or what kind of knott to tie in with even if I personally don't agree with those choices. They have a history of getting it done.thats good enough for me. Some young kid I won't hesitate to tell them to wear a lid or how to rig their rappel if I think they are doing it wrong. 

Ability to do something unfamiliar and new is insignificant, but a willful unwillingness to learn to do or try anything new would be a red flag, indeed.

Old dog, new tricks? Bullshit. Being close minded and adverse to learning, is a major red flag. It’s valuable to have plenty of tools in the proverbial toolbox even if you always reach for your favorites.

Doctor drake. when you get to be over 60 years old you might just realize that  there is only so much time left and if what your doing is working why waste time learning something you don't feel the need to learn. I am all about learning things I feel like I want and or need to learn but if everything is working well the way i am currently doing it I may be inclined to skip the lecture. 

I like learning  new stuff just to keep my brain warm and flexible.  Think of it from a tradesperson's and clients perspective- not learning the new and modern techniques that the architect/inspector wants with an open mind is definitely a red flag. I certainly have changed  my tune with the gg type devices,  I'll  almost never push my limits on lead anymore unless  my belayer has a locking device. Many years of climbing  choss and having goats and n00bs drop stuff taught me that. 

Climbing is not work. in the workforce you have to keep up or be left behind. Climbing is not on the clock and you can do whatever works for you. when folks get all up in arms and start making rules it stops being the rebellious fun its supposed to be.  

But it's a major red flag ... except for that one partner.

Not.

Kevin. there is a huge difference between the old guy asking the young guy how they do that neat trick and the young guy telling the old guy do it my way or else.. 

I guess the point is if your partner,  young or old, doesn't want to learn basic and modern techniques than I agree it's a big red flag. I can't is one thing,  I won't  is another. 

Artem Vee wrote:

but what if its simple 

What if there isn’t a problem?

What if I don’t want to wear micro spikes?

Big, major, massive red flag?  Or just something we work around for tomorrow’s winter hike?

Yellow flag, folks …. yellow flag.

As has probably been said, the big red flags: a non-communicative new partner regarding their abilities, a partner who won’t seek a mutually agreed solution about your safety-related concerns, … essentially a partner who isn’t really a partner.

I’ve climbed with a partner who tried but absolutely could not learn to tie a figure eight. It made no sense to declare that a big, major, massive red flag. Simply mutually adjust the  objective for the day.

Still, some have a more narrow view which probably means more red flags I guess. We need a red-flag-o-meter for those throwing them.

Bill Lawrywrote:

I’ve climbed with a partner who tried but absolutely could not learn to tie a figure eight.

I don't think I'd want to have a person like that as a passenger in my car. 

PWZwrote:

I don't think I'd want to have a person like that as a passenger in my car. 

Because? … does your commute end with a crewed sailboat?

If my partners are experienced I don't tell them how to do their gig even though I might do it differently.  The whole I am a hot shot and if you don't do it the way I do it you must be a hack attitude leaves a sour taste. 

Bill Lawrywrote:

Because? … does your commute end with a crewed sailboat?

Because I'm not sure I could trust that person to not choke on their own spit, nevermind clean an anchor or pull stuck gear

I've been climbing for over 50 years.  I've climbed with and belayed some of the best thru the years.  I've caught some really scary falls.  I refuse to use a grigri!  I've watched more people dropped while being belayed by one and don't see any usefulness in them.  They make you lazy.  If you can't belay well with an ATC then you can't belay.  

And if you demand that I use a device I don't believe in then I have no reason or desire to climb with you anyway.