Climbing Has A Problem

but sport climbing is neither

and olympic climbing is a double edged sword imagine if they made competitiors get a DECA body scan and they must have a healthy minimum body fat percentage or they are disqualified 

imagine if coaches fired or benched team members who are too low body fat

competition is a net negative to all but the corporations that advertise and broadcast them

To those who dismissed this topic by saying there are so many more important issues to be concerned about instead ...

... what are you doing about those other issues?

F r i t z wrote:

To those who dismissed this topic by saying there are so many more important issues to be concerned about instead ...

... what are you doing about those other issues?

Is it a desire to have a perfect world? Is that even possible? I don't like people having unhealthy lives but I don't want to regulate their lives. Do you?

If it comes down to the kiddie learning bad ways of living that completely falls under parenting 101.

F r i t z wrote:

To those who dismissed this topic by saying there are so many more important issues to be concerned about instead ...

... what are you doing about those other issues?

All we need is a couple of those mandatory online training courses to solve all these problems.

Well, Ive found that dismissiveness rarely is an effective policy for improvement.  Should we not do anything about crime, climate change, etc ?   The thing is that  large, pervasive, seemingly intractable problems DO pay large dividends for small shifts of the bell curve.  

Even cynics who believe that 90% of the time people’s heads are in the sand, their ass, or the clouds, think it pays off in the long term to attempt to educate in the 10% of the time their heads are in clear air.  

It is very interesting to me seeing all the dismissive responses. Like yeah this is nowhere near the top 1000 most important issues in the world right now, but this isn’t a political action forum where people meet to talk about the most pressing issues facing humanity, it’s a climbing forum, a place where people talk about *climbing*.

If you believe it’s only worthwhile to dedicate attention to big important issues what are you even doing here or going climbing for that matter.

The whataboutism is pretty lame as well-other sports having worse problems doesn’t mean we shouldn’t address our problems, it means they should also be addressing theirs.

It also seems pretty clear that a lot of folks commenting haven’t watched the video which is frustrating but I guess par for the course.

I understand the idea that people should be free to do whatever they want with their bodies, and I generally agree with that sentiment. But the truth is people are free to starve themselves to improve their climbing in the short term at the cost of their long term health, and they always will be. No one is out policing bmi at the crag- get out there and go nuts if that’s your bag. Freedom should have limits however, and a good way to find where they ought to be is look at how a behavior impacts others, and in this case you have to look at the dynamics it creates in the athlete pool.

The IFSC has a responsibility to its athletes to keep them safe and healthy-athletes are required to clip every draw for just this reason, athletes who routinely skip multiple clips outside don’t bat an eye at this requirement. The red s issue is precisely the same- the IFSC should not allow some athletes to put their health at risk in order to gain an advantage. 

As far as what to do I trust dr Schöffls reccomendation-monitor athletes for signs of red-s and bar them from competing if they show signs. As far as what we can do as concerned fans of the sport I think signal boosting that video is a great way to raise awareness and put pressure on the leadership of the IFSC. 

All the people claiming to care so much - what are you doing to make a difference? Besides making a MP post...

grug g wrote:

All the people claiming to care so much - what are you doing to make a difference? Besides making a MP post...

Grug -  lemme know when you hit that 10% window and I’ll tell ya ;)

Locker wrote:

You are obviously unaware of the importance of mountain project...

 

If you cant virtue signal online where are you supposed to do it? I tend to think about how the radical right took away abortion rights recently and all the arguments about freedom of choice and keeping your laws off my body. 

Of course Darwinism comes into play here too. I'm one of those folks who loves the planet much more than the people on it. 

F r i t z wrote:

To those who dismissed this topic by saying there are so many more important issues to be concerned about instead ...

... what are you doing about those other issues?

I made a meme

grug g wrote:

All the people claiming to care so much - what are you doing to make a difference? Besides making a MP post...

IDK, I treat eating disorders in my career. Eating disorders are the most difficult to treat of all process addictions (if you want to look at it as a process addiction.) Stating that elite performance is associated with actual starvation is such utter bullshit. Eating disorders can have significant lifelong consequences well beyond the cessation of the behaviors. I am surprised there is such an uproar over this, but also it is mountain project so why expect anything other than justification and arguing over the most stupid sh** imaginable.  I am now part of the problem though because I am participating.  

Light: The documentary film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thtDQJGrO5s

grug g wrote:

All the people claiming to care so much - what are you doing to make a difference? Besides making a MP post...

Your implication is that increasing the community dialog about issues that effect the community is of little value, I have that right?  

It's difficult to imagine anything changing for the better in a community without the community engaging in discussion first.

But in addition to making a MP post... 

Coached the youth climbing team here in Kitsap County WA were I live for 4 years- during that time we coaches added programming around youth nutrition, the importance of taking care of (fueling) your body as an athlete and explicitly had team discussion, parents included, about orthorexia and EDs in general.  

Kids get great value from having strong role models when they're operating in the high pressure environment of competition anything.  It's my experience that kids naturally put huge amounts of pressure on themselves to perform and without guardrails in place things can get very dark.  This, I believe, is the reason Locker's "its not a problem, just be smarter" arguement is total bunko.  Nearly every high level comp climber starts as a youth comp climber.  Either Locker has never interacted with children or he knows that kids (I would argue, humans) don't do a great job of using logic to make smart long term choices. And it's up to parents, coaches, and the organizers to look out for these young athletes.

Also- everyone that feels strongly about this issue should consider emailing IFSC direcly to calmly voice their concern. Sending honey, not vinegar.

sport@ifsc-climbing.org

Is there anything else you want me to explain myself about Mr Grug Grug?

How much of this community has an American bias on what a body should look like? We are far more used to fatties and thicker bodies. Go over to Europe and it seems shocking at first but they are much thinner in general than Americans. 

grug g wrote:

How much of this community has an American bias on what a body should look like? We are far more used to fatties and thicker bodies. Go over to Europe and it seems shocking at first but they are much thinner in general than Americans. 

The person sounding the alarm is a fit German dude… what point are you trying to make?

So now just because someone isn't fat, they are harming themselves?    You do realize people on average, used to be lean not that long ago.   Look at any footage of people pre-1990s.

Tradiban wrote:

All we need is a couple of those mandatory online training courses to solve all these problems.

HR was looking for you, please report immediately

Russ Keane wrote:

So now just because someone isn't fat, they are harming themselves?

Nope, no one is saying that.

Consider watching the video that started the thread. Starts out with a cool bit of first hand climbing history about Todd Skinner and his training regimen. Super interesting. 

Locker wrote:

This thread is topping out...

You can always count on Mountain Project...

Perhaps because trolls like you keep shit-posting?

Li Hu wrote:

Top climbers nowadays appear to be well built, and not too skinny? Our lead setter looks very fit cruising up 5.13b, doesn’t look unhealthy at all and likely tips the scale at 135 5’7” maybe?

Had two climbing partners three decades ago 6’1” and 6’2” both of whom weighed 125 pounds. They didn’t appear abnormal, but thinking back they possibly had some form of eating disorder?  BMI under 16.5 doesn’t sound very healthy?

Cruises 8a he sets or a world cup setter? Big difference. The temptation is that he could likely cruise 8c if he weighed 115. If you depend on results for your job, the temptation is going to be strong. 

Will C wrote:

Do you have a job that doesn't require you to produce results? Where can I get me one of those?

Government, union or universities are great places to start looking!