Red Flag Phrases

Austin Donisanwrote:

"In direct" tells your belayer to stop actively belaying you and just relax, and that you won't start climbing again without letting them know. So no, it can't be replaced with "slack."

So….to summarize, “in direct” is a sort of sport climber “off belay” lite?  

Basically saying:   I’m clipped In directly to an anchor point, so you can relax —kinda— but not TOO relaxed…don’t take me off belay totally, keep the rope in the Gri Gri in a sort of half-assed belay gray area, cuz eventually I’m gonna give this climb that’s above my pay grade another go as soon as I can recover enough to try and make it to the next bolt….

Got it.  Lol. 

Mike Bwrote:

Phrases in general. Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick.

Many small time make big time

Mark Pilatewrote:

So….to summarize, “in direct” is a sort of sport climber “off belay” lite?  

Basically saying:   I’m clipped In directly to an anchor point, so you can relax —kinda— but not TOO relaxed…don’t take me off belay totally, keep the rope in the Gri Gri in a sort of half-assed belay gray area, cuz eventually I’m gonna give this climb that’s above my pay grade another go as soon as I can recover enough to try and make it to the next bolt….

Got it.  Lol. 

You don’t have to enjoy projecting hard sport routes, but lots of people do. This is a pretty effective way to give your belayer a little break, without being taken off belay, which reduces the chance for a consequential error. It doesn’t mean you’re getting a “half assed belay”. It means your belayer keeps you on belay, but doesn’t have to tension the system.. Maybe you can’t understand the grey area here because you’ve not experienced it. But, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

"This is how we used to do things...," "Back in my day...," etc.

Sometimes very valid, but often used to excuse the use of ancient, often less safe gear or techniques. No, I don't want to be hip belayed up that steep sport climb.

Mark Pilatewrote:

So….to summarize, “in direct” is a sort of sport climber “off belay” lite?  

Basically saying:   I’m clipped In directly to an anchor point, so you can relax —kinda— but not TOO relaxed…don’t take me off belay totally, keep the rope in the Gri Gri in a sort of half-assed belay gray area, cuz eventually I’m gonna give this climb that’s above my pay grade another go as soon as I can recover enough to try and make it to the next bolt….

Got it.  Lol. 

I think my red flag might be "climb that's above your pay grade" for anything you can't onsight free solo in bowling shoes. 

“It’s safe, I learned it on mountain project”

Quite an assumption to think "hanging on a draw" was invented recently. 

amariuswrote: If I, as belayer, were to hear my climber ask for slack, they would get exactly that - couple of arm lengths of slack. 

How does this differ from what you do when your partner says “in direct”?

I ask because from my perspective, if I am on the lead, and I ask for my partner to give me slack it doesn’t matter what the reason is, I’m on lead so they better give it to me. If I’m directly connected to a bolt by a draw or to a piece of gear or at an anchor or if they are just keeping the rope too tight or there is a feature I want to work the rope around, whatever the reason, is irrelevant. Their concern is giving me slack and not taking me off of belay which is what everyone here seems to be describing while advocating for the use of “in direct.”

It’s possible I’m misunderstanding which is why I ask.

"I don't have gear to contribute but I can bring snacks/good vibes/drinks/etc."

Yawn Boscowrote:

Their concern is giving me slack and not taking me off of belay which is what everyone here seems to be describing while advocating for the use of “in direct.”

It’s possible I’m misunderstanding which is why I ask.

you just don’t get it.  “In direct” is not a command to do something like “off belay” or “slack”,  it’s a “notification” of a certain climber status in which the belayer is free to interpret in some vague way how much he/she is able to “relax” but not necessarily stop belaying.   It is intended for longer siestas than a simple “take” would politely allow, and to allow you to shift your focus and perhaps check your phone and eat a sandwich which you might not otherwise do if just “slack” was called.  The next step beyond “in direct” is to call for “Hammock” if the route is particularly taxing and a longer more thorough break is needed for the business above.  

Mark Pilatewrote:

you just don’t get it.  “In direct” is a not a command to do something like “off belay” or “slack”,  it’s a “notification” of a certain climber status in which the belayer is free to interpret in some vague way how much he/she is able to “relax” but not necessarily stop belaying.  

Mark this seems bordering on semantics to me. All common climbing commands are short hand. The belayer must know the meaning of evwrycommand being used. Take a person who has never had any exposure to climbing and hand them a rigged belay device and give them your standard climbing commands. What would you expect to happen?

I’d guess, some head scratching.

All climbing partners must agree either implicitly or explicitly what the commands they use mean. Homies going “in direct” have agreed with their belayer what that means. Just like you and your belayers hopefully have agreed on the meaning of the commands you use. Different strokes for different folks I think.

Personally I agree with you, introducing a mode other than “fully on belay” and “fully off belay” is problematic. But who am I to tell other climbers what verbiage to use? Best practice is great, real world is great too.

On topic- I lame and have no red flags. I’m a big scared baby and really like to have a close relationship with each person I tie in with. So I have one less thing on my mind while heading up. 

Cosmic Hotdogwrote:

"I don't have gear to contribute but I can bring snacks/good vibes/drinks/etc."

Really? I love those people! I'll take snacks & beer over using someone elses stuff any day!

A red flag phrase to me is any version of "I like to free-solo" when brought up within 5 minutes of meeting someone. 

"I cant today, but i can this weekend"

"In direct" should die. The reasons why have been covered here and elsewhere ad-nauseum... lets get back to the purpose of THIS thread. There are multiple threads you can necro if you really want to continue to be wrong. https://www.mountainproject.com/search?q=in+direct&type=forums

I remembered a classic:
"" ... nothing, in response to raining rock down on you.
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119137372/texas-quickdraw-chain-free-solo-guy

“I never fall on gear” 

Peter Jwrote:

I expressed some concern about immediately simul rappelling with someone I had only just met and he turned to me and said very seriously, "Don't worry. I might spray about my climbing, but I NEVER spray about my simul rappelling! I know what I'm doing." 

He ended up being a much more experience partner than the last rando I had climbed the rostrum with.

Oh my god imagine that as an epitaph.

"Rostrum Guy 1950-2018. He might have sprayed about his climbing - but he never sprayed about his simul-rappelling"

ryan climbs sometimes wrote:

“MP has made me the climber I am today”

I just clicked over from the thumbs down thread and this made me legit laugh out loud. 5 stars.

Not personal- Mark is a great contributor.

Todd Jenkinswrote:

 any reference to a MP forum.  

I think reference to any online forums really.

"I saw a picture of this anchor on Reddit!"

Yawn Boscowrote:

How does this differ from what you do when your partner says “in direct”?

I ask because from my perspective, if I am on the lead, and I ask for my partner to give me slack it doesn’t matter what the reason is, I’m on lead so they better give it to me. If I’m directly connected to a bolt by a draw or to a piece of gear or at an anchor or if they are just keeping the rope too tight or there is a feature I want to work the rope around, whatever the reason, is irrelevant. Their concern is giving me slack and not taking me off of belay which is what everyone here seems to be describing while advocating for the use of “in direct.”

It’s possible I’m misunderstanding which is why I ask.

I am with you - you ask for slack, you get it. 

Here is the actual quote that led to the "two armfuls of slack" comment -

If I’m hangdogging a sport route and giving my partner a break I can say slack. When I’m ready to move again I’ll say climbing.

As to WTF this meant - I have no idea. But, I think, this thread is about red flags, and hearing someone espouse this belief is most assuredly  a red flag.

I don’t understand this “in direct” confusion. It literally means you are directly connected to a fixed anchor. This can be a bolt on a sport route, an anchor, or a piece of trad gear. Depending on the situation your belayer can act accordingly.  What is the issue with this? I feel like it’s a pretty useful and widely applicable command.