Climbing Has A Problem

https://youtu.be/w0Ev_b6w3GY?si=qB8QiIQmMAg00qB8

Alex Migos discussing eating disorders and anorexia with German National Team doctor.

The main premise is that there should be some oversight for competitive athletes especially in World Cups. There are serious long term consequences from anorexia.

I look at half of the female athletes in the World Cups and it is obvious they are self harming. I look around at my gym and I see the same thing, more with young female climbers but also many young men as well. Sacrificing their health for the send, they just look sickly many of them.  Thoughts?  Can anything be done?

It’s. A. Problem. 

Been going on for a while, I think Beth Rodden spoke about it years ago. Look at ballet and gymnastics. Dedication to a fault. 

Two words: Grade w@nking.

Just look at professional cycling.

Of all the problems to care about, pros weight is not even in the top 10. Sorry, but its their choice and problem to deal with. MP thread won't change anything. 

Back in the 80's I was calling it annorocksia.

It's really fundamental: climbers with higher strength to weight ratios will perform better.  Therefore, in a competitive atmosphere, elite athletes will sacrifice their health for performance.  It's not entirely a "choice"...I would say most elite athletes are by definition sort of mentally ill, and in this case annorexia, body dysmorphia, and so on get amplified and magnified by competition into a powerful and dark cycle. 

Solutions?  There are few.  Make elite competition less competitive?  Celebrate and suport and promote alternative athletes with diverse bodies who will almost certaintly not climb as well in terms of grades and athletic feats?  

Maybe they could identify blood markers for REDs or other metabolic imbalances and prevent those athletes from competing...

But all these solutions are difficult, and come up against the nature of strength-to-weight ratios in climbing, and the forces of elite competition.  

Balewrote:

 Look at ballet and gymnastics. Dedication to a fault. 

Long distance running too.  

Harry Kwrote:

https://youtu.be/w0Ev_b6w3GY?si=qB8QiIQmMAg00qB8

Alex Migos discussing eating disorders and anorexia with German National Team doctor.

The main premise is that there should be some oversight for competitive athletes especially in World Cups. There are serious long term consequences from anorexia.

I look at half of the female athletes in the World Cups and it is obvious they are self harming. I look around at my gym and I see the same thing, more with young female climbers but also many young men as well. Sacrificing their health for the send, they just look sickly many of them.  Thoughts?  Can anything be done?

It’s. A. Problem. 

Maybe there is a problem but you looking around the gym and judging who is self harming by their looks is pretty wild... Are you trained in this analysis?

Climbing doesn't have a problem.

Eating disorders, PED use, various forms of cheating, or designing the objective to favor certain athletes other others (ie comp route setting absolutely fucking over the vertically challenged), etc... are endemic to sports competitions, regardless of sport. Those who enter such competitions, if they are not naïve, understand that these things can be present. The higher the financial gains to be had the more likely for such things to be present.

People, we have a problem…the problem is people 

Tough fix 

Top climbers nowadays appear to be well built, and not too skinny? Our lead setter looks very fit cruising up 5.13b, doesn’t look unhealthy at all and likely tips the scale at 135 5’7” maybe?

Had two climbing partners three decades ago 6’1” and 6’2” both of whom weighed 125 pounds. They didn’t appear abnormal, but thinking back they possibly had some form of eating disorder?  BMI under 16.5 doesn’t sound very healthy?

Lot of bad takes in this thread. Do people not understand how serious RED-S or eating disorders can be? A little empathy goes a long way. Of course the MP thread isn’t going to solve anything, but it’s worth continuing the conversation. A lot of our fellow climbers are suffering. There are significant incentives in place for these climbers to cause serious harm to themselves. It’s probably most relevant in comp climbing right now, but obviously effects rock climbers as well. We need to have more conversations around wellness, mental health, physical health, and longevity. I’m glad athletes and doctors are speaking up, and it’s really worth listening to what they have to say. 

Harry Kwrote:

https://youtu.be/w0Ev_b6w3GY?si=qB8QiIQmMAg00qB8

Alex Migos discussing eating disorders and anorexia with German National Team doctor.

The main premise is that there should be some oversight for competitive athletes especially in World Cups. There are serious long term consequences from anorexia.

I look at half of the female athletes in the World Cups and it is obvious they are self harming. I look around at my gym and I see the same thing, more with young female climbers but also many young men as well. Sacrificing their health for the send, they just look sickly many of them.  Thoughts?  Can anything be done?

It’s. A. Problem. 

I support oversight for competitive athletes especially at the World Cup!

I would say most elite athletes are by definition sort of mentally ill

Hah!

While there is some presence of eating disorders in elite climbing (one very notable Italian athlete stands out as an example), the average climber (like those who are on this website), typically, are not in that category.  To the contrary most recreational climbers are no where near being below the BMI thresholds outlined in that video.  Most of us would benefit from watching our weight more!  Hard truth.  

Yeah I found that video to be really interesting, it’s a real shame that the IFSC has been so unresponsive to this issue that he had to resign, he seems like an incredibly knowledgeable and competent asset to the organization.

I’ve been watching world cups for several years and have definitely noticed the phenomenon-people get real light, perform really well for a year or two, and then kind of disappear. Was really sad to hear from this doctor that the negative effects of a few years of that will last a lifetime. And it’s definitely not just women-I think it’s maybe a little easier to spot in womens bodies but some of the men definitely have this issue as well.

It’s definitely important to raise awareness about this issue in our sport regardless of whether it’s worse in other sports-both for the sake of up and coming athletes to understand the dangers and for the fans as well in order to try and create a climate that pressures the IFSC to take appropriate action to protect the health of the athletes.

Good on Megos for amplifying this. 

Will C wrote:

It's ridiculous how climbers think it's such a massive problem when cyclists the world over are 10x more extreme in their eating habits. Climbers don't even register in probably the top 20 sports where weight problems/eating disorders have a measurable presence in the sport. 

Seriously, look at any pro cycling team or talk to any wrestler and then cry me a fuckin river.

100%

I learned last week that my house is has a termite problem.  But the pest folks said it's not nearly as bad as some of the other houses they've seen on my street.  So I decided not do do anything about it.  When my fiance asked about it I told her to go ask the neighbors about their problems and then to cry me a river.

Climbing has always been considered a more “intellectual” sport which may be why many climbers may be shocked by what it takes to compete internationally. 

This behavior isn’t new in climbing- it’s been around at least as long as there has been competitive climbing.

Though it’s tough to completely eliminate unhealthy behavior such as disordered eating or doping, it’s absolutely worth making an effort. Yes top athletes are extremely driven and will often seek an edge at the cost of their own well being, but this does not absolve governing bodies of any responsibility to protect their athletes health. 

The rules and structure of competition can incentivize or deincentivize this behavior-in the OP video the doctor talks about how they asked setters to move away from setting pure power endurance routes on small holds because that can quickly become a race to the bottom in terms of body composition-bringing in more powerful sequences on bigger holds incentivizes a level of power which is at odds with a “lightness is king” paradigm.

But if you watched the video you would know that knowledgeable folks involved feel that not enough is being done. These aren’t naive outsiders who don’t understand professional athletics-they are health professionals with decades of involvement in high level sport and access to specific granular data.  If they are saying it’s a problem-it’s a problem. 

Personally I was not aware that the effects of disordered eating were so permanent. Prior to watching that interview I kind of thought eh yeah it’s a good but not sustainable strategy, get real light, dominate for 6 months or a year and then wash out, go do something else with your life, whatever. But hearing in that video about how long the effects of even a relatively short bout of disordered eating can last changed the equation for me-if you are running competitions that incentivize people to damage their long term health for a short window of success and your plan is to just run through  a fresh crop of young bodies as needed, you are fucking up. 

Will C wrote:

…. 'Wow that's like soooo problematic'. Boo hoo. 

The above and your previous “cry me a fucking river” comment.  Just not understanding your anger here in this thread.  Seems unwarranted and a bit strident even if I tended to agree with your overall first point that climbing isn’t much different from other sports