New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

Kristian Solemwrote:

A short response, not to be rude but because this subject doesn't fit well on this thread.

The jury instructions read in a California court defining legal defense of self or other that will accompany that Penal Code open the doors wide to prosecution of a person committing violence while defending themself or another.

Also keeping it short and not to be rude, if you get to having jury instructions read, that means you were prosecuted and brought to trial. Which means that the DA thought something there means you either weren't in fear of your life and or that the person who got shot wasn't an actual intruder. That happens. It's good to be aware of what the criteria are and, as Russ' related post reflects, know what to say and not to say. I know for a fact that many people, in the shock-and-awe phase of a violent interaction, say too much. 

Where I live only farmers have guns.I don’t even lock my house when I go out. I don’t live my life in fear.
I think in Australia if you killed someone who was threatening you you’d need to use ‘equal and opposite force’ and have no means of escaping. So you can’t leave your house to confront someone outside your house, and kill them even if they’re armed and attacking you. I’m pretty sure you’d be expected to barricade yourself inside and call the cops. The Canadian fires are astonishingly incredible and sad   

^ Carl, I live in San Francisco, and am fortunate enough to not have any friends who are so paranoid they think they need to own a gun.

I agree with Phylp, in that if I needed a weapon for the City, it would be bear spray. In the bush, I don’t bother carrying bear spray. I’ve run into a lot of bears north of the CDN/US border, including a few grizzlies, and have always acted calmly, averted my gaze and slowly walked away. 

gunkie Xwrote:

I just turned 60.

Welcome Kid 

Phylp- when I’m gone for 2 weeks my Kats go insane from the lack of love, proper food protocol and box cleaning. They need me.

Once I discovered Mt Biking I stay off of the pavement. TBH I hate most street riders, or some of them, the ones who ride up “the crest” sometimes 3 wide goin 3mph blocking the entire lane. You come round a turn at 70 and get surprised!!!
Those people be stupid, and dumb.

I’m still working on my 5.7 “project”… it’s got a tricky outside edge move(RF) with a left foot high step into a heuco, right hand pulling on a flexible hold, sand under the hand crumbles …. Yea it’s choss.

Oh yeah- Lori is now famous! I saw her photos of bighorns on Reddit! Good job! 

Thats a huge bummer Phylp.. hope he heals completely. there was a hit and run sat night about a mile from my place and the cyclist was toast.. 

Randywrote:

 We have a simple diet and eating out gets really tedious - will probably do more airb&b when traveling overseas. We have thought about getting a small van-ish type vehicle to make more road trips in the US. 

I agree, that is one of the things I have liked most about having an RV for the past 20 years.  Having a kitchen... Yes you can do it with camping but it's infinitely easier to eat healthy food with the mini-kitchen.  I've had the van for a year now, it seems to be working out OK...Very small freezer compartment though.  I bought a separate small chest freezer for the CoR trip.  That worked out really well, I stocked it up with all my food for the trip.  The Almo General Store does their best, but I didn't want to have to do grocery shopping on the road. 

Sorry about your husband's bike crash, so many people I know have had bad ones. 

Thank you, everybody.  Us too, many of his bike friends both road and mtn. have had bad crashes.  His was when someone in the front of the group dropped a water bottle and people right in front of him swerved, and he swerved not to hit them, and went down.  Concussion, broken collarbone, 9 broken ribs.  He has no memory of the accident. Bone not fully healed yet but he has gotten out on the bike a bit this week.  They said it's OK as long as he doesn't crash.

Phylp… oh yeah sorry about your Man getting crashed out. Sounds like he got beat up some and not being able to recall details is common. It happened to me when I crashed my Kart. I woke up in hospital bed wondering “what happened….?…?…….. I remember being at the races but not the pile up. The mind is tricky.
I hope he feels better soon. 

Terry Ewrote:

have always acted calmly, averted my gaze and slowly walked away. 

I TRY and do that with people, generally, but sometimes I can’t help calling out jerkish behaviour. Yesterday at the traffic lights I put my motorcycle in neutral, put it on the side stand, and walked to the lady behind me and told her to get off her phone.
Today I asked a guy WHY he was parked at the petrol bowser when he wasn’t filling up but only getting a coffee? No one could get passed him.  I HATE that. I hate arrogant, entitled behaviour. No one is humble anymore. Everyone is so fucking special.   

Phylp Nine broken ribs?! Jeez. Is that nine out of twelve on one side, or did he get some on the other side too? I broke two last year, that was bad enough. There are few things worse than having broken ribs and feeling a sneeze coming on. OMG.

He’s back on the bike? That’s pretty awesome. Good for him.

Andrew Rice wrote:

Also keeping it short and not to be rude, if you get to having jury instructions read, that means you were prosecuted and brought to trial. Which means that the DA thought something there means you either weren't in fear of your life and or that the person who got shot wasn't an actual intruder. That happens. It's good to be aware of what the criteria are and, as Russ' related post reflects, know what to say and not to say. I know for a fact that many people, in the shock-and-awe phase of a violent interaction, say too much. 

I think we're on the same page. The scenario I wrote out for Lori described a situation where a person defending themself ends up shooting an assailant in the back as they turn to leave. I've read accounts of people being prosecuted in "self defense" situations like this. The fact is that you have neutralized the threat by brandishing your weapon, and the follow-on killing as they turn to leave can be seen as excessive force. As I said, when the entry wounds are in the back, self defense gets hard to prove. 

Bear spray vs a meth-head with a rifle? Respectfully, I hope you never have to test that theory. A sufficiently drugged crazy person with their heart set on mayhem is just going to point their gun in your general direction and start shooting. I'd sooner try to talk them down than pull out a can of bear spray.

Anyway, Carl your world of unlocked doors and trust in others around you to behave civilly is enviable. The Los Angeles Metro area is in a tailspin. This is why, last summer, Barbara and I bought 56 acres in a beautiful valley/canyon in Wyoming, ten miles from Devils Tower. The well is in, we have great water. Septic is going in now (kind of a big deal, the state is very strict on water treatment unless you mine for coal). The design for the house, western style timber frame, is about set. It's possible we'll have the grading, which is minimal, and the foundation done this fall. In any case by the time snow flies in 2024 we'll be in our new home well away from the world of shit that surrounds us right now. 

And we'll have a greenhouse, so I'll be posting more about gardening, not so much about guns.

the cabin i used to live in was 4.5 miles out a dirt road. i never locked my house but I did have a safe for certain things.  heck i didnt even have keys  for the place until we went out west in 2018. I had to have a house sitter because of the Kat and we though she might feel uncomfortable without locks that worked. had to buy new locks so she could have keys .  i still didnt use them though. My new place is on a state hwy. some  dude got arrested right in front of my house last winter and there is a pullover about a 1/4 mile down the street that gets used for drug deals. I lock my doors now.

Randywrote:

Sorry about your husband's bike crash, so many people I know have had bad ones. Riding on the road has become an increasingly fraught venture -- drivers are going faster, are rude or hostile, and are habitually not paying attention (on their phones). This is why I mostly ride off-road -- though Sarah and I do ride road bikes together (on less traveled routes and bike paths when possible).

Since I can (do) ride most days of the week, this certainly scratches my itch to get outdoors and somewhat re-sets that "internal clock."

Unfortunately, I am not fully retired yet. We will have to see what the future brings when (if) I eventually call it quits on working.

Also sorry to hear about your husband's riding accident. Been there done that too many times. I told my wife after the last one that I don't bounce so good no more.

I used to road bike during the hot parts of the year around here, and it was always kind of a dicey proposition (Phx has some of the most aggressive drivers I've ever seen), but once cell phones really got out there (yes, quite a few years ago now), it went from just dicey to downright scary, so at some point I decided, despite the 96 degrees at 4am thing in the height of summer, that I was going to pretty much go mountain bike all year 'round. It's much less stressful. Don't need to be constantly checking 360.

Having said all that... I've been mashed in various ways (simple road rash to cracked ribs) a number of times in bike wrecks over the last few decades, but have so far managed (knock on wood) to keep my climbing damage to the occasional jacked ankle and (something I'm sure a lot of people in here are familiar with) an ongoing case of belayer's neck (instigating the purchase of belay glasses). I try to ride conservatively nowadays. Funny thing is, it seems to be always the zero-mph crashes that get you.    

p.s. Pull the plug Randy... it opens up lots of riding time!!   

I don't have keys to my house. Two of my trucks & tractor have their keys in them, and none of my vehicles are locked. 

I hate getting somewhere & realizing I forgot my wallet so all of my vehicles with four wheels have money in the center console. So if you are really hungry & in need of money there is cash in my front yard.

I will not ride bicycles on the street. Too dangerous for me. 

I live in a very popular road cycling area and have lived here for 30 years.  So, 20+ years ago, I figured I'd take advantage of this recreational resource since was kind of rotating out of climbing with any regularity (small kids, mortgage, career, etc.).  I built up a pretty nice road bike from an Ebay frame and all the related components.  I had various rides that I would do regularly anywhere from a quick 15 mile loop to a full-on 105 mile non-overlapping loop.  After riding for around 5 or 6 years and having more than one very close call with cars, trucks, and one motorcycle gang, I realized I didn't like it all that much.  I really liked working on the bike more than I liked riding it :)

With that said, and approaching retirement, I am considering riding a bicycle across the country.  Bikepacking intrigues me.  Or maybe solo Mescalito.

gunkie Xwrote:

I live in a very popular road cycling area and have lived here for 30 years.  So, 20+ years ago, I figured I'd take advantage of this recreational resource since was kind of rotating out of climbing with any regularity (small kids, mortgage, career, etc.).  I built up a pretty nice road bike from an Ebay frame and all the related components.  I had various rides that I would do regularly anywhere from a quick 15 mile loop to a full-on 105 mile non-overlapping loop.  After riding for around 5 or 6 years and having more than one very close call with cars, trucks, and one motorcycle gang, I realized I didn't like it all that much.  I really liked working on the bike more than I liked riding it :)

With that said, and approaching retirement, I am considering riding a bicycle across the country.  Bikepacking intrigues me.  Or maybe solo Mescalito.

Huh, I had a run in with a motorcycle gang also, but of a different kind. I was at a stoplight on my road bike, and had some redneck in a F250 tried to push me into the gutter while yelling homophobic obscenities. There were two Banditos behind his truck, and they actually chased him down and made him explain why he was having “issues with two-wheeled transport.” It was quite amusing, actually. 

Kristian Solemwrote:

Phylp Nine broken ribs?! Jeez. Is that nine out of twelve on one side, or did he get some on the other side too? 

More accurately, it was 9 breaks, 6 ribs, 3 on both sides.

Congratulations on the new place. it sounds fabulous! (I almost walked up to your house yesterday.  My niece was visiting and we decided to do a walk in Monrovia.  Maybe you felt me thinking about you!)

So I did a thing the last couple days.  I looked back and it had been since April of last year since I had done any gear plugging (except for the occasional cam on "run out" sport climbs).  And I had not done any climbing since Memorial Day weekend, thanks mostly to the kidney infection and required post-surgery down time. So here are a couple not-so-good pics that prove I do climb.-

Great story Frank. Just shows how sometimes our assumptions prove to be totally wrong.

Tim, where were you climbing? I expect to visit our daughter in Philadelphia sometime this fall, if I have a window to climb, I’ll try to reach out to you. 

Kristian Solemwrote:

I think we're on the same page. The scenario I wrote out for Lori described a situation where a person defending themself ends up shooting an assailant in the back as they turn to leave. I've read accounts of people being prosecuted in "self defense" situations like this. The fact is that you have neutralized the threat by brandishing your weapon, and the follow-on killing as they turn to leave can be seen as excessive force. As I said, when the entry wounds are in the back, self defense gets hard to prove. 

Totally on the same page. And, yeah, shooting people in the back is never going to be a good look, no matter how scared you are. I'd expect to get prosecuted in that situation. 

Alan Rubinwrote:

Great story Frank. Just shows how sometimes our assumptions prove to be totally wrong.

Tim, where were you climbing? I expect to visit our daughter in Philadelphia sometime this fall, if I have a window to climb, I’ll try to reach out to you.

Gunks.  Send me a message via MP and I'll send you my cell number

I decided to take my hike this morning up to my “thinking rock“ which is the boulder right underneath Russ’ rock. Yes, Russ now owns the entire right hand formation of Tumbling Rainbow.  It’s just a beautiful quiet spot to perch and ponder life. I’m just feeling such gratitude today. I have been having the summer of my dreams. When I was stuck at a desk job and with some major life challenges I used to imagine just running wild and free, trotting along side the coyotes. Well, this whole summer has been like that. Except I go home afterwards and have ice cream and watch movies with Tony.  

Yesterday I decided to acquaint myself with one of the formations in the comic book area. I’m learning so much right now about navigating in this desert.  I already knew that what looked like a pretty easy hike from the trail would be a three or four hour sojourn. And what looks like small rocks to jump over would be boulders all the way. Not to mention, it’s nerve-racking to have to keep such a watch for rattlesnakes.  But I got there!  

for some reason I am really drawn to bikini whale area. On days when I’m feeling really brave, I go sit out on the end and just ponder. I had a good time watching some youngsters try to climb Bikini Whale – I just sat and watched and laughed.  I could have climbed it better than they did.    

I think this summer I have ditched some baggage. I haven’t lost my fear, but I am slowly losing my phobias. It was a big step to be OK with scorpions which I was unreasonably afraid of. I hopped over this guy on my way yesterday.  I did momentarily wonder if tarantulas jump.

 
two rattlesnakes, a lovely family of bighorn sheep, a tortoise, a rain storm – – what more could you ask?

And, yes, the next-door neighbor, who is drowning. It’s bringing back such memories of the desperate struggles of my son and so many of his friends. No one was “bad“. They were just so young and so captured by addiction. But recovery is a long process and it requires the support of a community and you can’t do it and isolation. And you have to have tools and some basic mental health. So I feel like I have had to first and foremost do what I can to insure our own safety. So we now have floodlights and alarms and motion detectors, and inside alarms… It’s the best we can do.  it may sound weird, but I feel such compassion for my neighbor and such sorrow for him. This isn’t who he is. But I will still pick up the shotgun on Saturday. And I stand before a judge tomorrow.