New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

Idaho Bobwrote:

Guy, we only bolt routes that offer no points of protection and can't be climbed on trad gear.  That said, have done a couple of mixed routes, no need of a bolt if a cam or nut can be placed AND, the runout reasonable for those climbing with no trad gear.

For routes that can be climbed trad we'll place a top anchor, and an intermediate rap station if the pitch is longer than can be rapped with a 60m (that's just to make it safe, not everyone climbs with a 70).

Besides all that do you rehearse each bolt placement relative to the clipping holds.  Put the first bolt high/low enough so the need to stick clip or not is obvious?  If you are going to manufacture a route really make it perfect

hold

finally a sunny day but it rained all day yesterday and most of the summer so the rock was seeping in many places. we had to piece parts of climbs together to find a dry way up start up one climb and finish on another.  got out with my youngster 18 yr old friend Reed

sunflowers are popping

Nick, beautiful as always!

So, sunny in VT, hot and sunny here. How are you folks in SoCal doing? I hope you're all safe and sound.

Wet & wonderful .

It was a good soaking but not too bad, at least around my neighborhood. I've seen more road damage from summer thunderstorms in the past. This morning the sun is out and things are looking quite nice.

No issues at my house. Like a typical winter storm. We got 2 inches in 24 hrs. 

We don't even have any puddles around the house this AM.  That thing sorta fizzled out here near 29 Palms.  

Agave watch has ended! Day 143. Plant uprooted and fell over during the night!

Edited _  I measured the stalk - 23.5 feet!

Phyl, Sorry about your agave.   

wendy weisswrote:

Phyl, Sorry about your agave.   

I am not sad. Witnessing the life cycle has been exciting. The agave spirit has gone to the great desert in the sky. Its many babies live on in other parts of the yard. 

Kristian Solemwrote:

It’s much more complicated than just that. In California, proving self defense in a homicide is a very high bar. Basically, the way the law is written, you must admit to breaking the law then prove it was justified. It’s called an “assertive defense.” Yes, we have a castle law, which means that within your own home you can stand and fight if you so choose, but if a zealous DA decides to argue in court that you used excessive (disproportionate) force, then you could save yourself from your neighbor’s intended violence and end up on the wrong side of the law at the same time. 

Not entirely correct. But agree that you want to avoid putting yourself in that situation if at all possible. Here's CA Penal Code 198.5:

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

The PRESUMPTION is that you held a reasonable fear of death or bodily injury if you shoot someone inside your own house. Now, lots of other things could diminish that presumption, like, for example, if a person shot someone who they'd previously had a beef with and told lots of mutual acquaintances that they just couldn't WAIT to kill that guy when he showed up at their door. Or if the person entering had been allowed into the premises 100x before without incident and had no way of knowing that this time they were going to get shot. But in the situation described earlier, I find it hard to imagine a SB County DA would waste more than a few minutes deciding the case was a loser to prosecute since the penal code presumes it was self defense motivated by fear, which would exactly correct. 

A short response, not to be rude but because this subject doesn't fit well on this thread.

The jury instructions read in a California court defining legal defense of self or other that will accompany that Penal Code open the doors wide to prosecution of a person committing violence while defending themself or another.

This is just sad commentary! 

Paranoia is a horrible place to live. 

Andrew Ricewrote:

Not entirely correct. But agree that you want to avoid putting yourself in that situation if at all possible. Here's CA Penal Code 198.5:

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

The PRESUMPTION is that you held a reasonable fear of death or bodily injury if you shoot someone inside your own house. 

In that vein, those are the words that cops and DA's want to hear when arresting and prosecuting a bad guy.  The cops used the "but you were in fear for your life" line on me so they could hang an attempted murder charge on the guy that was shooting at me.  When I told them I was mostly just "very concerned" that was not good enough.  They wanted the "fear for your life" statement in order to really lay it on the dude.  Of course he eventually plead out to lesser charges, but having the statement probably made the case for an actual sentence.  They also told me to get some guns and don't be afraid to use them!  

And here's a climbing pic just because...

All these posts about guns and self-defense, gives me the impression that California (perhaps just Southern California) is a dangerous place to live.  I wonder why?  

 Only Maine and New Hampshire have lower murder rates than Idaho.  No one I personally know owns a gun for self-defense or "safety", only for hunting.   

I doubt that owning a gun increases personal safety, more likely increases risk of unintended use/accidents.  

If I did live in a place where I had security concerns, I'd get a baseball bat, not a gun.  

The murder rates are picking up in Maine as the hard drugs keep flowing in from down south. Recently some local fishermen tried to off their crew member by shooting him in the head, dragging him to the beach before attempting to sink him to the bottom. He came to while they weren't looking and swam away

I just turned 60.

Musings on travel vs being home:

Since I moved down here on retiring 9 years ago, I've figured out my optimal schedule for being on the road vs. being at home.  I love road trips and they typically last 10 days to 2 weeks.  More than that and I start to feel unhappy.  Once home, I'm happy to be there for about 2.5 - 3 weeks.  Then I start to get a bit antsy and want to hit the road again.  Of course, while at home, there are day trips to climb, or even 2 day trips to Joshua Tree, but that doesn't satisfy the road trip urge.

I got back from CoR on June 22 and was supposed to leave on an east coast trip on July 6.  But then my husband had a terrible road bike crash and it was impossible to leave him.  Needed to help him bathe and eat and dole out the pain meds.  (I thought of Randy out on his bike so much, after that accident - bikes seem more dangerous to me than climbing!)  By the time I left on Aug 1st on my Mammoth trip, I had been going completely stir crazy!  6 weeks at home was too much!

Everybody must have their own internal timer.  Curious about if other people have that internal clock that gets them on the road...

phylp phylpwrote:

Musings on travel vs being home:

...  But then my husband had a terrible road bike crash and it was impossible to leave him.  Needed to help him bathe and eat and dole out the pain meds.  (I thought of Randy out on his bike so much, after that accident - bikes seem more dangerous to me than climbing!)  By the time I left on Aug 1st on my Mammoth trip, I had been going completely stir crazy!  6 weeks at home was too much!

Everybody must have their own internal timer.  Curious about if other people have that internal clock that gets them on the road...

We enjoy traveling, but find that too much time away from home gets a bit much. We have a simple diet and eating out gets really tedious - will probably do more airb&b when traveling overseas. We have thought about getting a small van-ish type vehicle to make more road trips in the US. We would have to dump one of our cars (more than two vehicles seems unreasonable to us). Having a dog (our youngest child's dog - she lives in NYC now), has certainly crimped our style -- I think it will live forever. 

Sorry about your husband's bike crash, so many people I know have had bad ones. Riding on the road has become an increasingly fraught venture -- drivers are going faster, are rude or hostile, and are habitually not paying attention (on their phones). This is why I mostly ride off-road -- though Sarah and I do ride road bikes together (on less traveled routes and bike paths when possible).

Since I can (do) ride most days of the week, this certainly scratches my itch to get outdoors and somewhat re-sets that "internal clock."

Unfortunately, I am not fully retired yet. We will have to see what the future brings when (if) I eventually call it quits on working.