New and experienced climbers over 50 # 25

I'm sorry to have made such a big deal of this... I just chalk up all these experiences as 'climbing over 50' because it is happening as we speak, and this crew always has the best advice.

It is bringing back the helplessness I felt when two of my kids were doing drugs.  They had their 'rights'.  My neighbor has his... the right to assemble an arsenal in his home, and to show it off to us repeatedly, so he can confront the Armageddon (or, when the 'gubment' comes to take all his guns).  He has the right to complete privacy.  He dodged 5150 holds (ran out of the building) and therefore never was found to be mentally incompetent.  And even today, no one will talk to us, the neighbors or family, about this case.  I don't know who his PO is. I have spent hours pulling drafts of hearings off of the county portal.  So, for three years we have seen this bizarre behavior escalating, and could do nothing about it.  Days/weeks when he said he couldn't sleep or eat.  Paranoia that everyone was tapping his phone, even his air conditioner.  

It wasn't just the AR's. He answered the door at Christmas with a machete in his hand.  Ha ha.  

This is a nice neighborhood.  I actually LIKE my neighbor, and grieve for him.  Tony strongly believes this is going to end in a murder.  

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Hurricane coming.  I was hoping to get in one last long hike this morning, but saw lightening coming from the hills I was headed towards... decided maybe not such a good idea.  5--9 inches expected in 3 days!  Just hoping my longhorn sheep get a long cool drink.   

you should look at the % of people killed in their home with their gun. 

Something like 75% of security guards are shot with their own service revolver. 

105 lbs. of gentle sweetness. You have to pick their shit up all of the time & you have to feed them. For that, you get unquestionable loyalty and no need for a gun. 

I am a gun owner! I am also a small white man that was born in East L.A. To me, a man carrying a gun for self-defense is an act of cowardness & nothing more.

Mark Frumkinwrote:

you should look at the % of people killed in their home with their gun. 

Something like 75% of security guards are shot with their own service revolver. 

105 lbs. of gentle sweetness. You have to pick their shit up all of the time & you have to feed them. For that, you get unquestionable loyalty and no need for a gun. 

I am a gun owner! I am also a small white man that was born in East L.A. To me, a man carrying a gun for self-defense is an act of cowardness & nothing more.

To which I say:  I am a crazed meth addict who wants in your house.  I shoot the dog (through a window or whatever), and proceed.  How does Fluffy help at all? 

Never in my wildest did I expect to be in this position, but here we are, in real danger, without adequate police force to watch over us every second... I'm just going to take every measure I can to make sure we are not the next victims.  And, when in Rome...

I'm pretty sure Russ will concur.    

EDIT:  I'm pretty sure I've hit my 3 post limit... but to Andrew, thank you for that!  NO, I'm not 'sure' I'm ready to kill someone.  But at this point, there are not many options BUT to be ready to fire a shotgun or other weapon if there is no other choice.  If someone is heading down my hallway... I will do whatever I have to.  Mainly, I'm interested in preventing that scenario.  

I was hoping I could find a Probation Officer, or Judge... it's surprising how difficult this all is.  'Ex parte' from outside person (me)... not allowed.  Unless I were to go disrupt a court proceeding. I may still take my vacay to Sac, but would be leaving Tony behind.  Very uncomfortable situation.  

Thank you everyone. :-)  

Lori, I'm concerned for both you and Tony (and, to a lesser extent, for your neighbor). I went through something similar with a mentally ill neighbor who chased and menaced people with a genuine samurai sword. The SMPD was worse than useless. They actually refused to take a police report from two of my son's friends who had this guy leap in front of their car while parking at my house and menace them with a sword until they had to drive away. Actually quote from the PD, "It's not assault because there's no way the sword could have pierced the car they were in!"

But, seriously, it always sounds badass to say you're going to kill the guy when he comes into your house. And that's certainly your right. But as someone said above, "are you really ready for that?" I don't just mean the actual violence and risk of getting into combat. I also mean the trauma, the guilt and the legal shit show that might result. Killing another human isn't like killing some tomato worms. It leaves a serious scar, even when it's "justified."

Maybe this is is a good time to go visit your friends or family elsewhere? File a complaint with the cops before you go, letting them know that you don't feel safe in your house and are going into exile BECAUSE of this guy. Find out who the judge is in his pending proceeding. Let the judge know what is going on. Give the system a little time to hopefully work. 

BTW, I got the mentally ill guy removed from the house next door by pointing out, rather forcefully, to his family that owned the house that they were going to lose the house and more in litigation the second he touched me or one of my family members. Apparently a $3 million house was more motivating to them than their own family member's mental health. 

Tombstone, guns, crazies . . . 

Where's the woo? Perhaps you're wedded to calamity.

Andrew Ricewrote:

But, seriously, it always sounds badass to say you're going to kill the guy when he comes into your house. And that's certainly your right. But as someone said above, "are you really ready for that?" I don't just mean the actual violence and risk of getting into combat. I also mean the trauma, the guilt and the legal shit show that might result. Killing another human isn't like killing some tomato worms. It leaves a serious scar, even when it's "justified."

This is so very true. Two of my kids failed to engage a pickup truck with a guy with a RPG in the back that passed our convoy. This was clearly within the Rules of Engagement and something that they were trained to do. They literally could not open fire on another human…at least not until they were fired upon first. 

Fluffy has a backup.

Crazy meth heads & most other crime minded people don't want anything to do with hard work & dealing with fear! 

The little one is mean as can be & you better kill her with the first shot. 

Mark Frumkinwrote:

I am a gun owner! I am also a small white man that was born in East L.A. To me, a man carrying a gun for self-defense is an act of cowardness & nothing more.

That is a ridiculous statement.  East LA 60 years ago is a little different than having a total nutcase living next door and brandishing weapons in 2023.  These days you need actual self defense, and the backbone to use the force.  As to the scars or trauma of actually having to shoot somebody, fuck that.  Just shoot the bastard and carry on.  Human life is cheap these days and and better his than mine if it comes down to it.  To add, I don't carry a gun because I would use it.

Andrew Ricewrote:

Lori, I'm concerned for both you and Tony (and, to a lesser extent, for your neighbor). I went through something similar with a mentally ill neighbor who chased and menaced people with a genuine samurai sword. The SMPD was worse than useless. They actually refused to take a police report from two of my son's friends who had this guy leap in front of their car while parking at my house and menace them with a sword until they had to drive away. Actually quote from the PD, "It's not assault because there's no way the sword could have pierced the car they were in!"

But, seriously, it always sounds badass to say you're going to kill the guy when he comes into your house. And that's certainly your right. But as someone said above, "are you really ready for that?" I don't just mean the actual violence and risk of getting into combat. I also mean the trauma, the guilt and the legal shit show that might result. Killing another human isn't like killing some tomato worms. It leaves a serious scar, even when it's "justified."

Maybe this is is a good time to go visit your friends or family elsewhere? File a complaint with the cops before you go, letting them know that you don't feel safe in your house and are going into exile BECAUSE of this guy. Find out who the judge is in his pending proceeding. Let the judge know what is going on. Give the system a little time to hopefully work. 

BTW, I got the mentally ill guy removed from the house next door by pointing out, rather forcefully, to his family that owned the house that they were going to lose the house and more in litigation the second he touched me or one of my family members. Apparently a $3 million house was more motivating to them than their own family member's mental health. 

And part of being ready is to know EXACTLY what to do and say when you call 911 to report the shooting (essentially, nothing more than required).  All 911 calls are recorded.  The next call after 911 should be to your attorney; you're gonna need her, even if the shooting was 100 % justified.

RE Mark and Russ, sounds like we are all on the same page. I have guns but dont carry ever cause I'd probably get in trouble but damn if ill ever be helpless in my own house when some fucked up tweaker comes looking for a treasure. Having something nearby at home is peace of mind, especially these days. Crazy political times too, it seems the orange hair-do is really testing our democracy, they seem to think everyone who has ever even leaned left is an enemy of freedom and God. 

That said, you gotta go spend some time actually becoming comfortable using the tool before it can be useful. 

Mark Frumkinwrote:

I am a gun owner! I am also a small white man that was born in East L.A. To me, a man carrying a gun for self-defense is an act of cowardness & nothing more.

Why is it OK to have a gun at home, but it's "cowardness" [sic] to carry one for self-defense? That makes no sense. 

You only want to be able to defend yourself when you're at home, but not when you're out and about?

Edit: I love when I read a story about a would-be victim turning the tables on an armed attacker by shooting them. Swift and sweet justice!

Lori Milaswrote:

One thing I never knew, and this casts a real shadow on my ability to deal with this, is that you have to wait until your attacker is fully inside your house before you can shoot him. Or her. I’m not sure I can remain that calm...

It’s much more complicated than just that. In California, proving self defense in a homicide is a very high bar. Basically, the way the law is written, you must admit to breaking the law then prove it was justified. It’s called an “assertive defense.” Yes, we have a castle law, which means that within your own home you can stand and fight if you so choose, but if a zealous DA decides to argue in court that you used excessive (disproportionate) force, then you could save yourself from your neighbor’s intended violence and end up on the wrong side of the law at the same time.

Example: Your crazed neighbor breaks in through your front door, carrying a gun. As he is approaching you, you are able to wake up, get a light on, grab your 12GA, level it at him and rack a shell. At this point he’s standing there, gun at his side. You must either shoot him then, without hesitation, or absolutely fire if he moves his gun. But what if the sound of that shotgun racking changes his attitude. Remember, he’s crazy. He’s not some paid assassin who has every move planned. So, something snaps in his head, and he decides to turn around and leave. If you haven’t shot him yet, are you cool enough to hold your fire now? Because, when the investigation takes place, if the entry wounds are in his back, you have a big problem.

To have a chance at keeping your mind clear in the heat of such a moment, you must be absolutely 100% proficient with the gun. Guns are much more dangerous than climbing, and you hire pro’s to climb with. Hire a pro to teach you about your gun. And buy a few dummy rounds and practice, practice, practice. When you pick up the gun what do you do first, turn the safety off? Rack a shell into the chamber? Bring your trigger finger inside the trigger guard? (Clue: That’s not the sequence.)

Regarding Tony’s handgun, several companies make kits where a laser cartridge chambers as would a live round, you shoot at a target, and an app on your phone shows your results. These are no substitute for time at the range, since there is no concussion or recoil, and no having to re-acquire the target after a shot. Only shooting live ammo can you refine your grip on the gun such that it stays on target after the shot. But, the laser kit is very good for practicing how to unholster, chamber a round, turn off the safety, finger the trigger, and get the first shot off on target, fast without shooting yourself in the leg in the process. FWIW this happens. Not long ago at a local range some guy was practicing pulling out his pistol for speed. He grabbed it with his finger on the trigger, pulled it up out of the holster, and performed a sex change operation on himself.

East L.A. 60 years ago was a preview of life today. Drugs and craziness ran rampant & being small & white made me a target. 

Paranoia makes people do stupid things. Paranoia is a mental condition I try not to take part in. Look at murder numbers from the 60s & 70s. 

I think bear spray could make a very effective deterrent, and it has a surprisingly long range and requires no training to use.

Kristian Solemwrote:

... Not long ago at a local range some guy was practicing pulling out his pistol for speed. He grabbed it with his finger on the trigger, pulled it up out of the holster, and performed a sex change operation on himself.

Oh, my, this is worse than a Darwin Award nominee from 2000 -
"[Arkansas Democrat Gazette] Two local men were seriously injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday morning. Woodruff County deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock are listed in serious condition at Baptist Medical Center. The accident occurred as the two men were returning to Des Arc after a frog-gigging trip. On an overcast Sunday night, Poole's pick-up truck headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older model truck had burned out. As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the .22 caliber bullet from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering wheel column. After inserting the bullet, the headlights again began to operate properly and the two men proceeded toward the White River bridge. After traveling about 20 miles and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the right testicle. The vehicle swerved sharply right exiting the pavement and striking a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident, but will require surgery to repair the other wound. Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. "Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his balls off or we might both be dead" stated Wallis."

Of course, this could not have happened anywhere but good olde AR! :) 

The unfortunate result of naming your child Billy Ray.

Yep, the combination of Arkansas and Billy Ray makes such incidents inevitable. I guess I am being ‘regionalist’ or whatever here, but true nevertheless.

We have Billybobs shooting their testicles off up here too Al, seen them in Canada as well, usually with a FUCK TRUDEAU flag flying somewhere.

This is all rather depressing. Can we talk about climbing or tomatoes or history or something?

I've been on my first annual trip to Fontainebleau since 2019. The climbing is still really hard (super technical) but totally enjoyable even for a non-boulderer like me. It's also a great base for non-climbers: it's a beautiful setting, great food markets, chateaux, Barbizon school painters hung out here, and its 45 minutes by train to central Paris for €5 (got to love French public services).

Also spent a few days at Aure-sur-Mer, near what is now called Omaha beach. It's a long, gently shelving arc of sand: a pretty obvious place to land an army. 

The sacrifices of the combatants of June 1944 are sincerely and tastefully remembered with only a slight nod to catering for war tourists. 

Thought about my Dad who, when he volunteered for the Royal Navy in 1943, was asked if he wanted to be a landing craft pilot. He’d have been attacking one of the beaches further east. He declined only to be posted to the arctic convoys, probably less risky overall but they dragged on 'til spring 1945. 

duncan...wrote:

This is all rather depressing. Can we talk about climbing or tomatoes or history or something?

I've been on my first annual trip to Fontainebleau since 2019. The climbing is still really hard (super technical) but totally enjoyable even for a non-boulderer like me. 

Also spent a few days at Aure-sur-Mer, near what was called Omaha beach in June 1944. It's a long, gently shelving arc of sand: a pretty obvious place to land an army. 

The landings are generally sincerely and tastefully remembered with a slight nod to the commercial advantages of catering to war tourists.  .

Thought about my Dad who was asked to volunteer to be a landing craft pilot in 1943. He’d have been attacking one of the beaches further east. He declined only to be posted to the arctic convoys, probably less risky overall but they dragged on 'til spring 1945. 

Strange you just posted this, as I was listening to a podcast about the history of alpine climbing, and how alpinists were used in WWII.  And beautiful pictures!!!  

We haven't heard from Jan lately, I don't know how his tomatoes are doing, mine are DONE.  But, this year's Farmer's Market here has been so lush, I've been canning like crazy, apricots, black plums, and today if the hurricane allows, will go find young cukes to make dill pickles.  Of everything I miss from Northern California, aside from the great co-ops, it would be my plum tree.  Year after year I harvested up to 400 pounds of black plums... can't do that here.

Don't know what everyone else is doing climbing-wise... this whole summer has sort of been a break for me, and just to cut loose and be happy and roam over this vast desert.  ln my mind, September 1 is the 'back to climbing' time for me.  

So... I've been giving it all thought, and while I am slowly getting back to gym-strength training, what I really miss is ballet.  More specifically, the grace and core strength.  It's hard to know what's failing on the rock... but I think if my body were stronger head to toe, as in core-wise, I could handle these hard slab routes better.  So, I'm working on a combo of weights at the gym, and ballet workouts at home.  I don't remember whether it was Kris or Jan who recommended Pilates.  That works, too.

I think the thing about training, for me, is that I have to WANT to do it, and enjoy the body movement involved.  

This is Arturo's Special.  And if you look dead ahead at the slab across that crevasse, we climbed that, too.   

I love Bob, and I'm grateful for Bob, but I'd love to be able to climb something like this without coaching.  This route required moment by moment coaching... a sequence of moves I would never have figured out on my own.  On this route, I just had to execute the orders.  None of it made sense. 

Also... it just seems like for the big 7-0 I should climb Sexy Grandma again.  But I don't want to.  I still have trauma from Bob yelling up at me "STAND UP, Lori!  It's not a saddle!"    

There's a beautiful move on this route... I watched another climber do it... I couldn't pull it off like that.  

Hurricane today!!!  How's the weather where you are?  

EDIT:  One of the things I have loved about Joshua Tree is that there is nothing to be afraid of.  When I'm out hiking I feel so safe, I am not looking over my shoulder for bears or mountain lions, no large game to worry about.  Sadly... it's the humans here who can be deadly.