Pay it Forward/Volunteering is DYING Among climbers.

Post trail work beers sponsored by a local brewery works, lunch sponsored by some local business works, tshirts people can wear around town(gym) showing they were there works, shaming people can work too but you need a direct platform to do that. Even the gyms could step up and offer a discount for folks that helped. Sponsors are definitely out there, people love their social media, combine the two, give everyone an @karenbob shout out after.

Adam blocwrote:

Maybe the Tan Corridor is completely fine and no one else notices anything wrong with it.

It’s hard to let perfect get in the way of good enough but time would better be spent rebuilding the horrorshow gully to Animal World or stable belay platforms at the Graveyard 

Hey Alex - was a pleasure meeting you a Staunton a couple weeks ago. I think Adam has the right idea here with relation to your most recent adopt a crag day. You mentioned it to me as we were on our way to Tan Corridor and I honestly saw no need for work there, and instead spent the day doing trail work elsewhere in the Platte. There’s a lot of places that desperately need help where even a half assed, lower effort day would make a significant benefit, and tan corridor definitely isn’t that place IMO. I think the 80/20 rule is important to keep in mind when determining areas to help out.

Adams suggestions are great. Belay platforms on the east side of east colfax would be huge. A trail to Mourning Glory/Pearly gates would be awesome. Replacing the steel rings on the Mission Wall Tyro. Literally any trail in Buffalo creek and most south platte locations. The Lovers Leap trail. There’s a lot out there - Staunton is in great shape as a whole, so it’s tough to get folks to see eye-to-eye regarding the need there.

Adam blocwrote:

Maybe the Tan Corridor is completely fine and no one else notices anything wrong with it.

It’s hard to let perfect get in the way of good enough but time would better be spent rebuilding the horrorshow gully to Animal World or stable belay platforms at the Graveyard 

Tan Corridor, I Guess some people must be nearsighted, only 70% is fine, with all the rain, some areas, That need improvement, on the upper part of Tan Corridor,

Funny you say it’s good enough, at times, I’ve said that same thing, then the climbers totally destroyed the work that we did, because we did not make it Idiot proof, so we had to go back and redo it because we made it good enough,

You Need to talk to Boulder climbing community about the Graveyard and Animal World.

Tal Mwrote:

Hey Alex - was a pleasure meeting you a Staunton a couple weeks ago. I think Adam has the right idea here with relation to your most recent adopt a crag day. You mentioned it to me as we were on our way to Tan Corridor and I honestly saw no need for work there, and instead spent the day doing trail work elsewhere in the Platte. There’s a lot of places that desperately need help where even a half assed, lower effort day would make a significant benefit, and tan corridor definitely isn’t that place IMO. I think the 80/20 rule is important to keep in mind when determining areas to help out.

Adams suggestions are great. Belay platforms on the east side of east colfax would be huge. A trail to Mourning Glory/Pearly gates would be awesome. Replacing the steel rings on the Mission Wall Tyro. Literally any trail in Buffalo creek and most south platte locations. The Lovers Leap trail. There’s a lot out there - Staunton is in great shape as a whole, so it’s tough to get folks to see eye-to-eye regarding the need there.

Tal, I agree about those areas that need work, 

I can’t do it all, Staunton has The infrastructure and tools and some climbing volunteers, plus I can not, do what I want to do, 

FYI, it’s the Ranger in charge of trails who Decides what gets done, 

Dealing with the bureaucracy of the forest service or open space, I think The front Range stewards, should handle it,

I do not agree, about the Tan Corridor, 70% is good, if climbers could stay on the trail and only walk on hard surfaces, after 10 years of experience at Staunton with trails, if we make it good enough, it will fail, we will have to redo the work, again.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I replaced about 150 bolts last year. Placed another 300 on my own routes. Glued so so many holds. So many bits. Hung maybe 70 perma draws. Destroyed my drill, destroyed another drill and got my drill rebuilt to just destroy it again. I started just a gofund me to replace my drill. It has raised $45. In an 8k person facebook group. I have 30 likes. Of that $45, $20 of that is my wife feeling bad for me. People are awesome right? 

Edit: Well the coalition is going to at least pay me back for the bolts, but obviously destroying my drill rebolting is not going to be funded. 

Edit2: My gofund me really turned the corner

Post link to gofundme

Alex Awrote:

Tal, I agree about those areas that need work, 

I can’t do it all, Staunton has The infrastructure and tools and some climbing volunteers, plus I can not, do what I want to do, 

FYI, it’s the Ranger in charge of trails who Decides what gets done, 

Dealing with the bureaucracy of the forest service or open space, I think The front Range stewards, should handle it,

I do not agree, about the Tan Corridor, 70% is good, if climbers could stay on the trail and only walk on hard surfaces, after 10 years of experience at Staunton with trails, if we make it good enough, it will fail, we will have to redo the work, again.

Just chiming in to say that your efforts are greatly appreciated, and it also sounds like you may be dealing with some personal volunteerism burnout? 

I don't think the problem is so bad as to be accurately described that "pay-it-forwardism" in the community is dying. I think it's moreso that the community of climbers has exploded (both in the last 20 years and the last 3 years), and with greater numbers comes an intensifying of predictable phenomenon like Tragedy of the Commons, Bystander Effect, and Overstoked Newbie Naiveté.

Maybe it's not that volunteerism is dying (in objective volumetrics)... maybe it's that restorative volunteerism isnt growing nearly as fast as resource consumption (proportionalism).

The vast majority of the climbing community is and always has been way more admiring of and appreciative "hard sends" (e.g. Chris Sharma sending a new 5.15c in Spain) than they are of the developments that directly benefit their personal climbing options (e.g. that new 4-star 5.10c the local developer just cleaned up and established nearby). Which is silly. But so it goes. Way more people know and are inspired by the name "Daniel Woods" than they are "Darren Mabe" or "Kipp Trummel".  They don't call it "thankless work" to be ironic...

I've been of the opinion for more than a decade now that the future of most popular climbing areas that are already showing signs of degradation and overuse is an inevitable limited-access, public use plan, a la Hueco Tanks. It's a sad fact that as climbing has become more and more popular, we're increasingly at risk of "loving areas to death."

All that just to say - your hard work that benefits the community is appreciated, your desires for more restoration and preservation resources is shared, and please take care to guard your own energy expenditure so that you aren't left feeling like a resentful martyr.

I "not cool, guys... the fences are there for a reason..." tsk-tsk'ed some gumbies cutting switchbacks in Chautauqua on Sunday if that's any consolation.  

maintaining our climbing areas is a team sport. some people build trails, others donate funds, some replace hardware, others advocate for access etc...

most of us do our part...

Do you have an actual plan for soliciting volunteers or are you just posting about it on MP? 

Brent Kellywrote:

I think it's moreso that the community of climbers has exploded (both in the last 20 years and the last 3 years), and with greater numbers comes an intensifying of predictable phenomenon like Tragedy of the Commons, Bystander Effect, and Overstoked Newbie Naiveté.

this.  As the size of the "community" explodes, the sense of community diminishes.

I will say it definitely depends on the community. Here in Oregon we have a fairly legit outdoor climbing community. One local crag needed to be rebolted as there were a lot of sketchy/dangerous bolts. A developer started a go fund me asking for 1K, within 24 hours there were over 2K of donations.

maybe your community just sucks.

Alex Awrote:

Shame on you if you haven’t paid it forward lately, 

This style of guilt tripping was in vogue in 2019.

Elijah Swrote:

I will say it definitely depends on the community. Here in Oregon we have a fairly legit outdoor climbing community. One local crag needed to be rebolted as there were a lot of sketchy/dangerous bolts. A developer started a go fund me asking for 1K, within 24 hours there were over 2K of donations.

maybe your community just sucks.

Maybe flaming people on the internet wasn't the best way to build a community after all...

Elijah Swrote:

I will say it definitely depends on the community. Here in Oregon we have a fairly legit outdoor climbing community. One local crag needed to be rebolted as there were a lot of sketchy/dangerous bolts. A developer started a go fund me asking for 1K, within 24 hours there were over 2K of donations.

maybe your community just sucks.

I guess I'm old fashioned but chipping in a few bucks over the internet isn't exactly my idea of building "community."

Maybe the OP should have just started a GoFundMe and paid a trail crew to do the work.

Climbing is a selfish endeavor.  I should know, been doing it full time for decades now.  Complaining how hard it is to get volunteers to shore up trails to run more climbers, their dogs, their speakers, their trash, their waste along with their dogs waste, into the wilderness=typical 1st world boulderite-type problem.  There are more rewarding ways to spend your volunteer time on, if into humans, maybe for folks who cannot afford the tourist climbing lifestyle, or my preferences, your local wildlife sanctuary or Best Friends affiliate.  And maybe best to not assist turning the wilderness into Disney World.

Dow Williamswrote:

Climbing is a selfish endeavor.  I should know, been doing it full time for decades now.  Complaining how hard it is to get volunteers to shore up trails to run more climbers, their dogs, their speakers, their trash, their waste along with their dogs waste, into the wilderness=typical 1st world boulderite-type problem.  There are more rewarding ways to spend your volunteer time on, if into humans, maybe for folks who cannot afford the tourist climbing lifestyle, or my preferences, your local wildlife sanctuary or Best Friends affiliate.  And maybe best to not assist turning the wilderness into Disney World.

so, in your opinion, we should ignore wilderness and just let it go to shit? 

ive climbed in places that have this attitude, and it's awful...

With inflation, recession looming, etc... yeah, people are more strongly valuing the free time they have. Some very much understand how their fiat is evaporating and it stresses them out, others don't understand and just have an un-easiness and everything seems to be getting expensive and they only have a vague or incorrect understanding of why.

When the recession ends, which could be several years from now, where its only sorta starting now-ish, then you will see more people willing to get out and help give back to the community, when their free time is valued differently because their fiat is not evaporating as rapidly.

Some of us donate in different ways.  Like others had mentioned, a drill, fresh bolts, a butt ton of steel permas...

I personally don't trust the general climbing public to be working with sharp hand tools near me.  There are a lot of safety precautions and considerations that our "community" is generally unaware of having done minimal manual labor.

I’m honestly just stoked when work gets done at all.

Reading this thread is a bit disheartening, but I guess I don’t have the perspective of weather it is an actual shift in attitude from before.

Climbing is obviously a lot more established then what it was, so it makes me feel like folk are just used to being entitled to well built and already developed areas. There are so many people at the crag nowadays that surely there is a surplus of volunteers doing work, right? (/s)

I find that I always seem to garner interest from friends when I out there replacing hardware, but that the drive to fund and self motivate to replace is often the crux for many folks in that sort of involvement. The point made above about free time being increasingly held to importance because of the increase of costs and the constant monitization of any time whatsoever is also pretty credible IMO.

Regardless, I always find that the work is appreciated and that many folk would get involved if there was an easier way to just show up and help a little. Maybe I’m not cynical enough or just an idealist but that is at least the case in my microcosm of the climbing bubble.