Pay it Forward/Volunteering is DYING Among climbers.

1. Why is paying it forward/Volunteering DYING among climbers, and how to reverse it, Shame on you if you haven’t paid it forward lately, 

Little background, I’m a CPW Volunteer, I have been designing and building Climbing access trails at Staunton State Park for 10 years,

1. Lately it’s hard, getting people to come out and help work on trails, last 2 Adopt a Crag, I was trying to get 15 to 20 people, 13 people signed up, 5 showed up and 2 of were CPW Volunteers, last one 11 people signed up and 8 people showed up, and 3 of are CPW Volunteers, most of The attendees are from a Meetup group, Denver, social climbers, if it were a climbing trip, it would be filled, and be a waiting list of 10 to 15 people, I advertise on Access fund calendar of events, Mountain Project, Facebook, Post flyers at Staunton and still can’t get 15 people to HELP, WTF, there can be  30 people climbing at the Dungeon, maybe 150 climbers in the Park on a busy weekend, if you’re in Colorado and would like to help, send a PM.

I replaced about 150 bolts last year. Placed another 300 on my own routes. Glued so so many holds. So many bits. Hung maybe 70 perma draws. Destroyed my drill, destroyed another drill and got my drill rebuilt to just destroy it again. I started just a gofund me to replace my drill. It has raised $45. In an 8k person facebook group. I have 30 likes. Of that $45, $20 of that is my wife feeling bad for me. People are awesome right? 

Edit: Well the coalition is going to at least pay me back for the bolts, but obviously destroying my drill rebolting is not going to be funded. 

Edit2: My gofund me really turned the corner

Same issue here in the northeast. Getting anyone to show up for trail days is impossible but they’re more than happy to use those same trails every weekend to climb. 

Doesn't their gym membership cover all this? More seriously, it's not going to change. Maybe rethink for whom you're building trails.

Alex Awrote:

1. Why is paying it forward/Volunteering DYING among climbers, and how to reverse it, Shame on you if you haven’t paid it forward lately, 

 if it were a climbing trip, it would be filled, and be a waiting list of 10 to 15 people,

Maybe you are onto something here.  For me, spare time to climb is precious.  I work hard 5 and sometimes 6 days per week.  So, the thought of more work is not very appealing.  Nonetheless, I will do some minor trail work on my way to and from the crag.

But, what if you combined a climbing meetup with a trail work day.  Limit the trail work to 90 minutes or 120 minutes, then get some climbing in.  It might increase your numbers. 

Just a suggestion.  

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I replaced about 150 bolts last year. Placed another 300 on my own routes. Glued so so many holds. So many bits. Hung maybe 70 perma draws. Destroyed my drill, destroyed another drill and got my drill rebuilt to just destroy it again. I started just a gofund me to replace my drill. It has raised $45. In an 8k person facebook group. I have 30 likes. Of that $45, $20 of that is my wife feeling bad for me. People are awesome right?

Just curious: did you decide to do all that developing on your own accord, or did the “8K person Facebook group” ask you to put in all that work?

Perhaps the lack of funding support is the community telling you they don’t want you to continue bolting choss.

Greg Dwrote:

Maybe you are onto something here.  For me, spare time to climb is precious.  I work hard 5 and sometimes 6 days per week.  So, the thought of more work is not very appealing.  Nonetheless, I will do some minor trail work on my way to and from the crag.

But, what if you combined a climbing meetup with a trail work day.  Limit the trail work to 90 minutes or 120 minutes, then get some climbing in.  It might increase your numbers. 

Just a suggestion.  

You run into insurance issues with this. They’ll cover the volunteers for the trail work but not climbing. If you advertise the climbing then you’re hosting, then someone gets hurt, you know how the story ends. 

Maybe the Tan Corridor is completely fine and no one else notices anything wrong with it.

It’s hard to let perfect get in the way of good enough but time would be better spent rebuilding the horrorshow gully to Animal World or stable belay platforms at the Graveyard or at Vasodilator before someone gets really fucked up

Curmudgeon Donwrote:

Just curious: did you decide to do all that developing on your own accord, or did the “8K person Facebook group” ask you to put in all that work?

Perhaps the lack of funding support is the community telling you they don’t want you to continue bolting choss.

A group of climbers decided I should rebolt it, agreed to give me the resources to rebolt it, I then was waiting and was told I could start, then ghosted me. Flame on chuff! Im not even asking for the bolts, I just ruined my drill.

Regardless, one route has reclaimed it place as a very very popular beloved 5.11 or at least thats what people have been giving stars too.

How would you decide what is worth rebolting? What objective measure would you use to determine if it was worth it. 

“Limit the work to 90 or 120 minutes”…….

lol. That’s not how work works. Thats how long it takes to explain to someone how to operate a shovel. 

Something that I ran into as someone who desperately wanted to volunteer in my area was a lack of midweek trail days for people who work retail or service industry and aren’t on the M-F 9-5 schedule. I figured midweek it’s a lot less busy with climbers anyway, so it would make sense. Unfortunately, most of the people setting up these things are volunteering themselves, and they seem to mostly have weekends free. 

Puppers, Ill buy you a new your next drill if you give up MP for a year. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

A group of climbers decided I should rebolt it, agreed to give me the resources to rebolt it, I then was waiting and was told I could start, then ghosted me. Flame on chuff! Im not even asking for the bolts, I just ruined my drill.

Regardless, one route has reclaimed it place as a very very popular beloved 5.11 or at least thats what people have been giving stars too.

How would you decide what is worth rebolting? What objective measure would you use to determine if it was worth it. 

I asked if the climbing community asked you to place/replace all 450 bolts you described in your first post…..

Curmudgeon Donwrote:

I asked if the climbing community asked you to place all 450 bolts you described in your first post…..

Flame Flame FLAME!!!! Can you at least flame me on youtube so I get chode rider can get some of that sweet ad money? Youtube! 

Rprops wrote:

Puppers, Ill buy you a new your next drill if you give up MP for a year.

Sure! DM me and Ill send you the go fund me link!

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Flame Flame FLAME!!!!

So, “no they did not.” Thanks for playing.

Such volunteer work was immensely successful at our local climbing area in the previous decade. A few key individuals rallied together with other organizers (Bay Area Climbing Coalition especially helpful) prior to and following a wildfire event in 2017. These groups including many local developers and certain guidebook authors who rebolted routes and repaired numerous sectors, trails, and damaged cliff areas. Unfortunately the trails naturally erode and require constant ongoing maintenance and trimming of brush to remain accessible.

It requires so much more than just the labor needed to turn up on the event day…. Which I agree it seems so much harder to achieve a successful team-effort after the pandemic. IMO there is a sense that priorities for people have generally changed and they are less interested in trash cleanups or the overall population in being decent “stewards of the land”.  (Roadside trash dumping is definitely on the upswing in our region which for me is personally very discouraging.)

The dedication of certain people to these efforts in our community was previously excellent and noteworthy… but when they moved on to other projects (as they had every reason to do) there have so far been few dedicated people interested or have had the time to step up and replace them.

The opening of a certain climbing gym (North Bay Area) was the focus for many locals in the  last 2 years. It’s been interesting watching the dynamic of the much anticipated opening of this state-of-the-art gym change the focus of many people to the convenience of indoor climbs vs. driving and approach required to climb at the local crag. IMO Convenience and accessibility of the new gym has definitely lessened the interest of many to get outdoors here which is approx. hour away from the central location of the gym. (especially when it comes to doing trail work or participate or organize adopt-a-crag events, etc.)

This follows the unfortunate pattern IMO of many people with thier cell phone and screen addictions to shorten their attention spans and take on too many interests… They find themselves without the time to actually see or do any one thing through to completion. This trend does not correlate to being accomplished as a successful land steward. Sad and not seeing the situation improving anytime soon.

As to subject of route developers starting go-fund-me accounts to collect money for their personal climbing and route bolting… don’t get me started on that ! Not a fan.

Alex Awrote:...Shame on you if you haven’t paid it forward lately...

...I’m a CPW Volunteer...

...I advertise on Access fund calendar of events, Mountain Project, Facebook, Post flyers at Staunton and still can’t get 15 people to HELP, WTF, there can be  30 people climbing at the Dungeon, maybe 150 climbers in the Park on a busy weekend, if you’re in Colorado and would like to help, send a PM.

Idk what CPW is but I highly doubt they would approve of the tone of this request for help. Many people do not have the privilege of offering time and energy to volunteering which you have had for 10 years. Good for you and the climbers that have benefited but others shouldn't have to feel bad if they are not able to take advantage of the same opportunity. People  have complicated lives with shifting priorities that are often difficult to manage, volunteering falls low on that list for most. 

Go to those 30 or 150 people in person and hand them flyers. Be less judgmental than you were on here and you might get some takers. Explain to them how it will benefit them to help you, if there are 150 people accessing the climbing then it might not be obvious to them that help is needed because they are already able to access the resource they are interested in. Get contact info and do reminder calls, it is much harder for people to ghost a personal connection than it would be for them to decide not to go to the event they signed up for with the click of a button anonymously on the internet. 

You say there are meet ups for climbing in that area and another reply said that you could combine the two as a suggestion. I also think that is a really good idea and if I were the type of person that goes to meet ups I would be psyched to help out on the way to the crag. You could determine one task to complete for each meetup ( idk what goes into it so this could be way off but) it could be move this rock out of the way or trim the overgrowth as we hike in and maybe it takes longer to get the work done but my guess is it would be better than it not getting done. Another reply said that liability is an issue but people can get injured trail building I am sure so I don't see how that is different. Edit : Oh insurance.

I recently met two climbers one from out east and one from SLC that both get paid to bolt and trail build. Hopefully that is how it works in the future because trail work is skilled labor as I understand it. 

That's my two cents.

Adam Rwrote:

Many people do not have the privilege of offering time and energy to volunteering which you have had for 10 years. 

You're not wrong about the tone. I'd say that if you have the time and energy to get out and climb you can give up a few of those hours to shoring up the resources that you're using.  It doesn't have to be a massive organized trail building day to give back or to keep the climbing areas clean.  If each of us cut short one climbing day each season by just 30 minutes to pick up trash we'd be in much better shape.  That's one random example but you get my idea, little efforts by a lot of people can add up.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Flame Flame FLAME!!!! Can you at least flame me on youtube so I get chode rider can get some of that sweet ad money? Youtube! 

Sure! DM me and Ill send you the go fund me link

What do you drive? Makita, Bosh, Dewalt? 250 bucks to buy someone some mental health is a bargain. You DM me and I’ll venmo direct. No need to raise your social media numbers on GFM.

everyone just has soooooooooooooooooooo much free time and energy after working/sleeping/eating/climbing.  

I sometimes pick up trash when I'm out climbing.  Does that count?