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Gumby King
·
Jun 29, 2023
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The Gym
· Joined Jun 2016
· Points: 52
Michael Abend
wrote:
The hard part is replacing the bolts every week after they get chopped. And then avoiding another bolting thread on MP
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Nic Lazz
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Apr 2011
· Points: 325
Stiles
wrote:
Wouldnt it be easy to just bolt X and R climbs into PGs? You ever hand drill?
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Potter Wonderland
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Planet Earth
· Joined Apr 2019
· Points: 3,377
Surprised I didn't see this mentioned. I've always thought of R rated routes being a route in which the CRUX is run out. For instance, if the route is 11a and it's run out on 10a terrain, it's pg-13. If the 11a section is runout, it's R. Same for X.
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Gumby King
·
Jun 30, 2023
·
The Gym
· Joined Jun 2016
· Points: 52
Potter Wonderland
wrote:
Surprised I didn't see this mentioned. I've always thought of R rated routes being a route in which the CRUX is run out. For instance, if the route is 11a and it's run out on 10a terrain, it's pg-13. If the 11a section is runout, it's R. Same for X. If interpreted that a route has a run out section thay may or may not be at the crux. So I think it just varies on the route and bolting ethics.
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Spider Savage
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Los Angeles, ID
· Joined May 2007
· Points: 540
R - Yer gonna die. (unless you know what you're doing) X - Yer gonna die for sure. (unless you are lucky)
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Jim T
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Colorado
· Joined Jun 2012
· Points: 469
R is for Really scary X is for Xttemely scary
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Steven Sutin
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Jun 30, 2023
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Vancouver, BC
· Joined Apr 2019
· Points: 50
PG13 - might get hurt R - probably get hurt X - probably die
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Mr Rogers
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Pollock Pines and Bay area CA
· Joined Aug 2010
· Points: 72
Potter Wonderland
wrote:
Surprised I didn't see this mentioned. I've always thought of R rated routes being a route in which the CRUX is run out. For instance, if the route is 11a and it's run out on 10a terrain, it's pg-13. If the 11a section is runout, it's R. Same for X. Yeah, thats not correct.
Example: scimitar on the east wall of lovers is 5.9 but has long 50ish ft section of run out 5.6. It gets an R rating because well, its runout and you really wouldn't wanna fall in that section. R has no relation to the crux. It could be R at the crux or anywhere else. With the logic you put forth I could have 1 bolt in 100ft of 5.10, then a well protected section of 5.11, and it wouldn't get an R rating... Seems to leave a little bit to be desired no?
In line with what many people have said: PG13 is scary but not really dangerous. Staying "heads up" is recommended and a fall might have a slightly higher chance of hurting ya. R is you really should avoid falling as doing so is gonna likely mess you up real proper, but is probably not gonna kill ya. X is you fall, that's likely the last fall you'll ever take. An X section of a route, or an X route, the rope is really is only good for body recovery if ya blow it.
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ilya f
·
Jun 30, 2023
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santa rosa, california
· Joined Jan 2021
· Points: 0
but surrealistic pillar at 5.7 doesn't have an R rating despite having a 50' section of 5.5 where you'd get really hurt if you botched it
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Stiles
·
Jun 30, 2023
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the Mountains
· Joined May 2003
· Points: 845
Nic Lazz
wrote:
You ever hand drill? You ever chop a bolt?
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june m
·
Jun 30, 2023
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elmore, vt
· Joined Jun 2011
· Points: 120
Some guide books will indicate whether the R section is on is at the crux or an easier terrain
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Mr Rogers
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Pollock Pines and Bay area CA
· Joined Aug 2010
· Points: 72
ilya f
wrote:
but surrealistic pillar at 5.7 doesn't have an R rating despite having a 50' section of 5.5 where you'd get really hurt if you botched it well, I suppose things change when enough people say it deserves it. Especially on MP.
Many examples of the comments sections of climbs, where it is proposed to change the rating to R and changes happen. Scimitar is an example of this as well by chance.
Concerning SP I don't think it deserves the R, but understand why someone would argue for it to be marked as such.
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ilya f
·
Jun 30, 2023
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santa rosa, california
· Joined Jan 2021
· Points: 0
i just climbed it and i think, as i mentioned and then potter mentioned, it probably shouldn't get the R because when you arrive at that easier terrain, you're comfortable with the climbing. unless you're well over your head, which may be the case in beginner routes. so maybe you're right, for easy routes that have any runout at all, they should be R. usually at the higher grades a substantially easier runout won't bother a climber but maybe on easy grades it will since beginners climb them. i thought the same thing on bears reach, the first 40 feet are the real deal for a new leader, you could get really hurt there, but it doesn't have an R either. haven't climbed scimitar so can't say from experience what the difference is. i'd like to though!
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nbrown
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Nov 2007
· Points: 7,988
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Mr Rogers
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Pollock Pines and Bay area CA
· Joined Aug 2010
· Points: 72
ryan climbs sometimes wrote:What does fear no evil get with all this lovers leap talk? Never climbed it to give any true opinion, But have always heard it's R with a heavy lean to X.
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Austin Donisan
·
Jun 30, 2023
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San Mateo, CA
· Joined May 2014
· Points: 674
nbrown
wrote:
There are some crags where runouts are so common that the R is eschewed all together: https://www.mountainproject.com/area/106443421/big-green R is reserved for only the most dangerous... in which case you should really think long and hard about what you're about to get into. Similarly the SuperTopo Tuolumne guidebook explains that the safety ratings given are on a different scale than used elsewhere. It can be annoying that "R" is such a broad category. For example Fantasia and Fear No Evil are both "5.9 R", but they sound like very different levels of dangerous.
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Shaniac
·
Jun 30, 2023
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jul 2016
· Points: 24
Potter Wonderland
wrote:
Surprised I didn't see this mentioned. I've always thought of R rated routes being a route in which the CRUX is run out. I like Potter's concept of CRUX. We already have R and X ratings. Now we just need C and U? C = Average climb, not great, not bad, just meh-ish. (about as well defined as the current ratings. : - ) U = Undeveloped. All climbs start as this, until some brave soul does the FA.
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Potter Wonderland
·
Jul 1, 2023
·
Planet Earth
· Joined Apr 2019
· Points: 3,377
Mr Rogers
wrote:
Yeah, thats not correct.
Example: scimitar on the east wall of lovers is 5.9 but has long 50ish ft section of run out 5.6. It gets an R rating because well, its runout and you really wouldn't wanna fall in that section. R has no relation to the crux. It could be R at the crux or anywhere else. With the logic you put forth I could have 1 bolt in 100ft of 5.10, then a well protected section of 5.11, and it wouldn't get an R rating... Seems to leave a little bit to be desired no?
In line with what many people have said: PG13 is scary but not really dangerous. Staying "heads up" is recommended and a fall might have a slightly higher chance of hurting ya. R is you really should avoid falling as doing so is gonna likely mess you up real proper, but is probably not gonna kill ya. X is you fall, that's likely the last fall you'll ever take. An X section of a route, or an X route, the rope is really is only good for body recovery if ya blow it. Climbing in Tuolumne would beg to differ. There are TONS of runouts on easy terrain that if you fell you'd get fucked up. But they don't even get pg13! Same for Joshua tree. I've done many routes with runouts on easier terrain that gets no R rating or pg13. If you're climbing 5.10, you shouldn't fall on 5.6! Therefore not runout in my book!
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Mr Rogers
·
Jul 1, 2023
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Pollock Pines and Bay area CA
· Joined Aug 2010
· Points: 72
Potter Wonderland
wrote:
Climbing in Tuolumne would beg to differ. There are TONS of runouts on easy terrain that if you fell you'd get fucked up. But they don't even get pg13! Same for Joshua tree. I've done many routes with runouts on easier terrain that gets no R rating or pg13. If you're climbing 5.10, you shouldn't fall on 5.6! Therefore not runout in my book! I don't disagree. However the argument here is not if some routes should have an R rating, but what it means if it does have it.
Many climbs could be argued to have deserve an R rating, and through discussion, they sometimes get that badge after the fact.
Many times, the descriptions in guides will say there is a run out section, despite it not having an R rating.... and in the case of MP, the comments section can be quite illuminating.
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Potter Wonderland
·
Jul 1, 2023
·
Planet Earth
· Joined Apr 2019
· Points: 3,377
Mr Rogers
wrote:
I don't disagree. However the argument here is not if some routes should have an R rating, but what it means if it does have it.
Many climbs could be argued to have deserve an R rating, and through discussion, they sometimes get that badge after the fact.
Many times, the descriptions in guides will say there is a run out section, despite it not having an R rating.... and in the case of MP, the comments section can be quite illuminating. Okay fair fair! Ps. Everyone, Read the comments after you climb the route. It'll change your lifeeeee
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