Rope soloing and ground anchors: ethics discussion (uh oh)

Heezuuuuz. You're right Devin.
Deaths are going up attributed to bolts failing. Literally, bodies for belays.
LRS is causing damage to bolts and is dangerous.
Gri Gris de-sheath ropes on the reg.

Limit edits baybeee:

Devin wrote.....

I don't understand you fellas point in communicating if you're just doing it in bad faith, you will win no one to your side that way, except maybe more idiots.

I said bolts pull out, not that everyone is dying, some do die though. I sure hope you weren't the ganja sage that brought up strawmanning earlier. My point was bolts aren't bulletproof like Eazy E is saying, that abusing them results in the need for more holes drilled.

Grigris desheath ropes on static catches of high force falls like hanging belay factor two falls.

-Just cause we dont agree with you doesnt make it bad faith.

-I said some bolts fail in two seperate posts, but I guess that doesn't count as me agreeing that some bolts fail?

-If you're regularly taking falls that get close to FF2 you got way bigger issues than a gri gri.

Lastly,
YGD

Adam Rwrote:

JE this is an interesting conversation with useful and thought provoking information on both sides but when you say mean things it really makes you look bad. 

Back @J E ah okay and I shouldn't have singled you out. 

No prob, I appreciate the reality check.

@ricky he’s literally over in the hardware forum talking about his favorite types of bolted anchors. Just a troll

Tradibanwrote:

What is contradictory for you?

Or is it that you just don’t get it?

Your ethics don't at all apply to Pinnacles, an exclusively trad climbing destination by definition. That place breaks your brain. 99.9% trad and 95% bolts. You keep on equating trad with no or little bolts which is a thing ignorant gym climbers and sport bruhs do, not usually accomplished trad climbers. Trad can have a fuckton of bolts and you keep pretending it isn't so because it breaks your paradigm. 

You aren't pro-trad you're just anti-bolt. 

If you were consistent you would hate the traddies that put up bolted routes just as much as you hate sport climbs, but you don't because you're inconsistent and don't actually have an argument grounded in anything other than a hatred of bolts. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Your ethics don't at all apply to Pinnacles, an exclusively trad climbing destination by definition. That place breaks your brain. 99.9% trad and 95% bolts. You keep on equating trad with no or little bolts which is a thing ignorant gym climbers and sport bruhs do, not usually accomplished trad climbers. Trad can have a fuckton of bolts and you keep pretending it isn't so because it breaks your paradigm. 

You aren't pro-trad you're just anti-bolt. 

If you were consistent you would hate the traddies that put up bolted routes just as much as you hate sport climbs, but you don't because you're inconsistent and don't actually have an argument grounded in anything other than a hatred of bolts. 

Pinnicles? Your fish bowl? Are they rap bolted? I’m against rap bolting and hook bolting, bolting from a stance is “trad” and provides the limitations bolting needs.

Although that’s my offer of a compromise, I would prefer if a face needed bolts it would be top roped or not climbed at all, clean aid if you must.

Maybe I was too hard on the AF, after all they make really nice T-shirts and stickers. I propose that they start a gym to developer program in order to keep the crags safer and less prone to having 670 holes drilled into them instead of a much more LNT number like 666. 

M Mwrote:

Maybe I was too hard on the AF, after all they make really nice T-shirts and stickers. I propose that they start a gym to developer program in order to keep the crags safer and less prone to having 670 holes drilled into them instead of a much more LNT number like 666. 

This would be an excellent idea. Though I would go more with “low impact route development” And broaden the scope rather than “gym to developer”. But Especially considering the majority of the bolt failures devin shared seem to have been developer-error. They can even include a lesson on when it’s appropriate to drill ground anchors!

This thread has drifted pretty hard. Remember when that guy drilled a temp anchor on the ground when he didn’t need to?

I’ll note that my opinion has been swayed on one thing throughout the course of this thread: i now feel permanent ground anchors should also not be installed unless strictly necessary for safety reasons such as keeping a belayer from falling off a cliff. Who says I didn’t come In open minded?

How about v-threads drilled into the rock for LRS anchors instead of bolts?

Lion Forestwrote:

How about v-threads drilled into the rock for LRS anchors instead of bolts?

I’m admittedly not as familiar with these, does it not effectively result in the same thing as removable anchors?

J Ewrote:

I’m admittedly not as familiar with these, does it not effectively result in the same thing as removable anchors?

Devin Hanes wrote:

Drill them with the drill upside down right on the ground, place some stones in front of them when done! Nice.

This is basically what some people already do with climbtech RBs. They can be placed at any angle because they don't use hangers. Just place two holes angling down right at dirt level (also nice because won't kink the RBs). If there is still grass at the base of the cliff then no one will ever notice them because they'll be hidden by the grass. If there's no more grass at the base the area has already been ruined by sport climbers anyway so what's 2 more holes at dirt level!?!

Ben Fwrote:

If there's no more grass at the base the area has already been ruined by sport climbers anyway so what's 2 more holes at dirt level!?!

so tired of this faulty logic

J E wrote:

Do you think that adults come to an online forum to listen to avatars pontificate about ethics?  There's plenty of that going on in real life.  People have annoying friends, family, climbing partners, and acquaintances.  Your opinion is noted for eternity, but nobody cares.  

HAKAS

translation for boomers - "Have a Kick Ass Summer"

Lion Forestwrote:

Do you think that adults come to an online forum to listen to avatars pontificate about ethics?  There's plenty of that going on in real life.  People have annoying friends, family, climbing partners, and acquaintances.  Your opinion is noted for eternity, but nobody cares.  

HAKAS

translation for boomers - "Have a Kick Ass Summer"

Yet you took time out of your day to click on and read and reply something like a dozen times to a thread labeled “ethics discussion”. If you don’t want to talk about ethics, don’t hop in an ethics thread. Your opinion is noted for eternity,  but nobody cares.