Is Outward Bound a real guide service?

Mike Kwrote:

A pet peeve of mine is group size which seems to be part of the problem in this case.

I thought there were some Leave No Trace guidelines for limiting group size, but when I googled it only said "Visit in small groups when possible. Consider splitting larger groups into smaller groups ".  While I agree with this idea I wish some of our climbing and outdoor organizations were a little more specific and emphatic about group size.

How many is too many?  

Does the AAC, AMGA, Access Fund, NOLS, or other groups have specific guidelines on group size?  

Different groups have different impacts. I large group of adults compared to a large group of 10 year olds.
Its just very nuanced to pin down whats too big. Ive seen small groups of 3/4 cause way more of an impact than a well behaved group of 10.

Different land managers (USFS, NPS, etc.) have different maximum group sizes for various forms of permitted activity. The OP doesn't give a body count for the group he encountered, but the problem seems to have arisen more from poor group management by the guides than the sheer number of people involved. 

People always have the option to tell the "guide" to fuck off, and do the route anyway. One old partner of mine yanked an unused guide top rope, after the guy refused to move it. You should have seen his face. He said - nothing. We climbed.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

People always have the option to tell the "guide" to fuck off, and do the route anyway. One old partner of mine yanked an unused guide top rope, after the guy refused to move it. You should have seen his face. He said - nothing. We climbed.

I had a guy yank the rope from a climb we had just set up because “leaders have first dibs”. The guy never even asked.

I punched him in the face then pooped in his bag.  

Chad Millerwrote:

I punched him in the face then pooped in his bag.  

No you didn't - stop trying to act tough on MP. 

Chad Millerwrote:

I had a guy yank the rope from a climb we had just set up because “leaders have first dibs”. The guy never even asked.

I punched him in the face then pooped in his bag.  

fuck yeah dude, someone once asked if he could climb the dihedral next to my top rope and I tortured him to death over the course of a seven-day coke bender

The title in question ”Is Outward Bound a real guide service?” is yes, they are a real guide service. On climbing trips, they generally have a Climbing Specialist that manages the site while the other Instructors help facilitate. 

Leon Wrightwrote:

Is this acceptable guide behavior? Every time I have ran into guides, they are super cool and go out of their way to be pleasant and keep things moving smoothly and are absolutely professionals.  In hindsight, I should have talked to them right when we got there about our intentions.  Instead I chose the passive patience route.  Lesson learned.  

I think you solved a main problem with your statement here. Of course, it’s also on them to read the room and notice if surrounding people are frustrated by their group; however, try to be direct with your intentions and frustrations with the instructors next time. Waiting for several hours and getting silently frustrated doesn’t necessarily help them know what you want and need

Pat Lightwrote:

fuck yeah dude, someone once asked if he could climb the dihedral next to my top rope and I tortured him to death over the course of a seven-day coke bender

A man of culture as well I see! Tip o' the hat sir.

Pat Lightwrote:

fuck yeah dude, someone once asked if he could climb the dihedral next to my top rope and I tortured him to death over the course of a seven-day coke bender

I have that weapon in my arsenal as well, sometimes you gotta take em all next level.

grug gwrote:

No you didn't - stop trying to act tough on MP. 

Of course I didn't.  I'd never poop on someone's gear.  Sarcasm is lost on you . . .