The Taz Lov + Revo Lead Rope Solo Thread

This is still a little bit of a work in progress but the details left to be figured out are quite small and it's at present working very well. This is an unusual system that offers some really significant advantages that aren't seen in other systems. Although uncommon, I do occasionally see redundant device systems like this, such as two-Revo-two-rope guy, and some unusual systems that use uncommon for climbing rope access devices. However each of those have some significant downsides that I really dislike. So here it is: my system which climbs just as well as a single device system while have two device redundancy and significant level of safety despite implementing zero backup or trailing or stopper knots. This makes the system far, far more pleasurable to use in practice and significantly speeds up multipitch climbing. 

Also, let's be clear of what the goal is here: Most people's rope solo setups are not meant to be a replacement for partnered climbing in terms of safety. Of course this is still more dangerous than partnered climbing as the consequences are always higher when on your own, but the point of this setup is to approach the reasonable limit of rope solo safety while keeping the trade offs for that safety as minimal as possible. I'm a huge chicken and committed coward and I am uninterested in systems that are not as similarly reliable as partnered climbing. Don't listen to me, do your own analysis, you're gonna die, whatever, but I think this system is a pretty rad way to rope solo with a similar certainty of having the system catch you to partnered climbing and it still climbs beautifully and isn't a massive faff to set up and tear down each pitch. 

The one major downside of this system is it's a lot of gear. I love using the Revo and having nothing but a Revo on a quicklink and trailing stopper knots in the rope and having a super bomber system. This is the opposite of that. But once you get used to it it's not actually that much more setup time, but there's no denying that it's on the opposite end of the simplicity spectrum from the Revo-on-a-quicklink system. Before I go over the system let me just show a photo of it all set up to give you an idea of what we're looking at here. 

We can't talk about using the Taz Lov for LRS without giving a shout out to Yann Camus; maybe someone figured this out before he did, but he did figure out how to use this thing for LRS on his own and popularized the system in his Facebook group. 

The Taz Lov is one of the better LRS devices out there IMO and is up there with the Grigri, Silent Partner, Revo, El Mudo, and Eddy as truly great LRS devices. Each one of these devices has significant pros and cons, and the pros and cons of this system are mostly the pros and cons of just using a Taz Lov. So here in my opinion are the pros and cons of this rig.

Pros:

• Feeds beautifully the vast majority of the time
• No backup knots (meaning ones tied into your belay loop) or trailing stopper knots required for true redundancy
• Is in the running for safest LRS system out there while being far more convenient to use than most similarly safe systems
• Is very fast to setup. Increased time per pitch for setup over a single device system is on the order of 30 seconds or so, which overall leads to time saved by not having to tie trailing stopper knots
• Can be used with the backpack method or the device managed cache loop method
• You use the same device for leading, rappelling, and top roping/following
• The Taz Lov is a great rappel device and is comparable more or less to rapping on a Grigri, and is way way more pleasurable to rap on than a Revo
• The Taz Lov is the singular greatest TRS device on the planet by an extremely wide margin, so if you have any sections you want to work on top rope just pull the lever and go down
• Although the Taz doesn't catch inverted falls the word on the street is that it does catch horizontal falls. 

Cons: 

• Requires chest harness of some sort
• Requires two belay loops (use Petzl Ring Open for second if your harness only has one)
• Two devices creates slightly more friction, but it really isn't very noticeable to me on lead
• Since the Taz doesn't catch inverted falls that's the Revo's job, but I don't know how much friction the Taz will introduce in such a fall and how long it will take the Revo to engage. I hypothesize the Revo (especially mine which is modified) would catch quite promptly in such a situation as I don't think the Taz will slow the fall much at all, but I would have to test inverted falls to find out, which I'm not going to do. Use your judgement here.
• Although there is not a failure mode wherein the Taz could disengage the Revo in an inverted fall, it could collide with it hard and potentially damage it. Doesn't seem likely, but again I'd have to do inverted fall testing to know. The Revo has two lever arms, one of which will spring out when it activates, and it's the dead rope side lever which springs out when the Revo activates, where as the Taz would touch and hit the live rope side lever arm.
• Sometimes the Taz doesn't like traversing and won't feed well, which is annoying. Haven't completely figured out how overcome this, simply need to use device more and get more familiar with it.
• Taz is picky on ropes. I have loads of ropes it should work well with, but doesn't because the ropes are older and fuzzy. Revo works on those ropes great. A newer dry treated Beal Booster 9.7mm works great and also offers significant advantages for rope soloing (has high dynamic elongation which gives soft catches, remember that you can always tension the rope to give shorter catches if desired when rope soloing so a high dynamic elongation rope simply offers a higher margin of safety and more options to the leader). I may have to buy ropes more often then normal as they wear and stop working as well or reserve a rope just for use with this system, but I love the advantages of this system so much that I am completely willing to do that.
• Quicklink on Taz is necessary for this to be a safe system IMO as we're going backup knot free and we don't want to be exploding our carabiners like Tom Randall on El Cap. I find quicklinks annoying but rope soloists that fall a lot damage belay-specific carabiners, so such biners are not appropriate for the primary device IMO and I just deal with being annoying screwing and unscrewing my quicklink every pitch.
• The Taz Lov is in a different orientation for leading than for rappelling and top roping/following. This means I have to completely remove the Taz Lov from the system at the top of every pitch and re-insert it the other way round. Extremely minor, but this is not required for the Revo.
• The Taz has a learning curve for rapping. It has a definite sweet spot and the first one or two times you use it you'll pull the handle too far and drop yourself a foot and scare the shit out of yourself. You get used to it fast though, and Yann Camus says the Taz has become his singular favorite rappelling device. 
• When entering very low angle terrain the Taz will stop feeding well from the leader leaning forwards, which necessitates the tether which holds the Taz upright being adjustable and the leader adjusting this tether mid pitch (however this adjustment is only required while on very easy terrain). Problem also addressable by not being a massive punter like myself and simply not using device on 5.6 terrain. Problem also also addressable by simply standing upright or holding device upright with one hand. 

OK, so let's dig into this setup, as there's a lot going on in that photo. Put on your Taz on your quicklink on your belay loop, then put on your chest rig. I recommend a screw gate belay biner here; I particularly like the Metolius Gatekeeper. For my chest rig I got two custom 50cm slings made for me by Skot from Skot's Wall Gear. I tried shortening 60cm slings with overhand knots but this ended up with 45cm-ish slings which were to short for me-- may work for people who are not 6'3". I girth hitch one sling to each side of the belay biner and then have a third going down which will attach to my second belay loop to transfer the load to my harness in case of an inverted fall. I have to use a 60cm sling with knots tied in it, but a not very tall person might be able to get away with just using a 30cm sling. Or make a custom length loop of accessory cord. Whatever, I'm sure you'll figure it out.

BTW, if you have an idea for an attachment device that is shorter than this carabiner but is not a quicklink please let me know. Putting a quicklink on a Revo is annoying and fiddly and time consuming, so this carabiner is much better but I don't like how long it is.

Put one of each loop over the head with the middle sling going down. 

Cross the slings over each arm:

Take your adjustable tether (mine is a taught line hitch which works great for shorter pitches and terribly for longer one, it always comes undone. Am thinking of getting a custom short cam strap from Skot for this purpose, would be interested to hear if anyone has another idea)

Then attach it to the middle-most strands of the slings that are your chest harness: 

Tuck it behind the carabiner next to the sling that will tether into your belay loop:

Set up the rope going through the Taz Lov with the brake strand from the Taz going into the Revo (which side of the Revo DOES matter, one side of the Revo will be directly above the Taz and it must enter the Revo on this side to feed well), attach the Taz upright to its tether, and take your Revo backup sling and attach that to a belay biner on the second belay loop. 

Here's another shot of it all set up:

I've also found a really good system which in some ways is even better using a Trango big wall chest harness:

This is actually what I've done most of my leading on as I have only recently gotten the custom slings from Skot, but I prefer the lower profile chest rig using Skot's custom slings most of the time. Have run out of room, will continue in follow up post.

If using the big wall chest rig the quicklink and carabiner are necessary IMO. The Revo tether sling attaches to the quicklink, this way you're not fiddling with the sling and just leave it attached all day when you install and remove the Revo. Saves a lot of time and fiddling.

Something cool is that since you have two devices, if you get to the top of the pitch and are on a ledge or a great stance you don't even have to tether in. Remove the Taz Lov from the system, you're still safe as you're on the Revo, then fix your line, re-attach the Taz in rappel mode and weight it, remove the Revo and then go down. When you get down tether in the Taz so it's upright again but this time in TR mode, attach a Trax or whatever below it, and blast off in TR/follow mode.

For Skot's custom slings I knew that 45cm was too short as that was about the length I was getting from 60cm slings with overhand knots in them, so I ordered a pair of 55cm slings and a pair of 50cm slings. The 55cm ones are a bit more comfortable but I need the Revo as high as possible, and the 50cm slings work much much better in that regard. I got the slings in 12mm which seemed like the best compromise between comfort on the chest and not taking up too much room on the belay biner they attach to (full width nylon slings create an absolute clusterfuck). I'm really really happy with Skot's custom slings. 

Also, if you don't know of and aren't using these things then you're making LRS harder then it needs to be:

On the left are aluminum DMM rope access carabiners which are rated to 16kn across the gate. Look for ANSI rated carabiners-- make sure to get aluminum instead of steel. I have steel ones and those motherfuckers are heavy. These are great for ground anchors or for making a sequential anchor on a sport route. Have the rope going through the quicklink on the locking draw, then have it tied to a figure 8 on a bight on the other locking biner. Climb, clip the locking biner to the first bolt, climb and clip the locking draw to the second bolt, bada-bing bada-boom redundant if not equalized anchor.

The draws on the right prevent backfeed and barely take more time to use than clipping normal draws. 

Also I got the Taz Lov 2 instead of the 3 as the 3 opens up with the push of a button thus introducing a failure mode where the rope could come out while leading. Seems incredibly unlikely, but I was planning on using the Taz Lov on its own and therefore didn't want this failure mode. Now that I'm using a two device system I really wish I had gotten the Taz Lov 3. If anyone wants to trade their 3 for my 2 let me know.

Edit to add: 

Forgot some of the big pros of the Taz. It gives the shortest catches of any device. Catches are noticeably shorter than the Revo. It locks off immediately under any situation other than an inverted fall, including in high clip scenarios. If doing stuff at your limit it's truly rad being able to clip high and then just rest on the rope hands free like in partnered climbing without having to do anything to the device to cause it to engage. Try doing that with any other device. 

I keep on meaning to learn how to LRS on the grigri and on the Eddy just for shits and giggles, but this system is much better and has so many less failure modes that I'm simply uninterested in moving to a system that's more finicky to implement and which can fail to catch you under certain circumstances, where as the Taz will just always catch you unless you invert, in which case the Revo will grab you. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

BTW, if you have an idea for an attachment device that is shorter than this carabiner but is not a quicklink please let me know. Putting a quicklink on a Revo is annoying and fiddly and time consuming, so this carabiner is much better but I don't like how long it is.

Have you considered using a swivel shackle for the revo so that it sits flush against your body rather than stabbing into your chest?  Not sure if this particular one will fit, but you get the idea. Camp also makes a more expensive but probably quicker-to-install version

While the WLL is 5kn, I doubt it would see this even in a primary device failure since the taz would have to absorb some energy, and the worst lead fall could only reach about 8kn.

Stonecrag makes a chest harness that is essentially this, if anyone reading finds the slings uncomfortable.

Are you using a cache loop at all? I imagine not if you have everything in-line.

I'll respond back with my own system when all the pieces arrive/I've done some testing.

J E wrote:

Have you considered using a swivel shackle for the revo so that it sits flush against your body rather than stabbing into your chest?  Not sure if this particular one will fit, but you get the idea. Camp also makes a more expensive but probably quicker-to-install version

While the WLL is 5kn, I doubt it would see this even in a primary device failure since the taz would have to absorb some energy, and the worst lead fall could only reach about 8kn.

WLL of 5Kn seems reasonable, looks like this thing is rated to fail at 36. However how would I be attaching the Revo to this or any other swivel/shackle? Seems like I would need some sort of carabiner style shackle or swivel so that I can easily install and remove the Revo every pitch which would probably be even longer, no?

Stonecrag makes a chest harness that is essentially this, if anyone reading finds the slings uncomfortable.

I do really want to get that chest harness actually. Might give it a go at some point in the future.

Are you using a cache loop at all? I imagine not if you have everything in-line.

I hate device-managed cache loops. Seems like you spend 4x as long paying out rope mid pitch as you can't pull much rope into the cache loop at once. I significantly prefer the backpack method-- often you can create some momentum by pulling the rope out hard and end up paying out 4-6' of rope into the cache loop in one quick motion. There's no denying that the device-managed cache loop method is faster though as it doesn't involve stacking the rope into a backpack every pitch, so I think I'll practice that a bit more to get comfortable implementing it on some of the easier multipitch routes I want to rope solo where the speed is a sizable enough advantage that I'd like to use a device-managed cache loop at least for some pitches. 

I'll respond back with my own system when all the pieces arrive/I've done some testing.

Rad, looking forward to it!

Ricky Harline wrote:

WLL of 5Kn seems reasonable, looks like this thing is rated to fail at 36. However how would I be attaching the Revo to this or any other swivel/shackle? Seems like I would need some sort of carabiner style shackle or swivel so that I can easily install and remove the Revo every pitch which would probably be even longer, no?

Just a few ideas:

Assuming you're not using the Revo for anything else: I would just leave it attached to the revo semi-permanently and load the rope by feeding is through (is this possible? My Revo is all packed up for a trip so I can't confirm). I went ahead and unpacked my revo to check. This is definitely doable. It will be less of a process of you put the revo on before establishing youre anchor that way you don't have to flake the entire dead side through it. With this in mid, this is probably my favorite option with the way your system is oriented.

 Another option would be to ditch the idea of a hardware attachment altogether in favor of cord (using a clove hitch or poacher's knot to prevent unintentional opening of device). This is still slower and more finicky than a crab, but probably less of a headache than a QL since you just need to loosen the knot to open the Revo up. But a little sketch.

A third option -- which will solve the issue of being too long but not the orientation -- is to use a petzl omni or camp triad with the curved side oriented down (ergo, the intended setup :D). You'll cut out an impressive ~50mm of length with this.This is probably the best, least faffy option, though I wish there were one that allowed for sideways orientation of the revo

I hate device-managed cache loops. Seems like you spend 4x as long paying out rope mid pitch as you can't pull much rope into the cache loop at once. I significantly prefer the backpack method-- often you can create some momentum by pulling the rope out hard and end up paying out 4-6' of rope into the cache loop in one quick motion. There's no denying that the device-managed cache loop method is faster though as it doesn't involve stacking the rope into a backpack every pitch, so I think I'll practice that a bit more to get comfortable implementing it on some of the easier multipitch routes I want to rope solo where the speed is a sizable enough advantage that I'd like to use a device-managed cache loop at least for some pitches.

I've been thinking of attaching a PCD to the leg loop or strapping it to my calf -- maybe even use one of the footstrap ascenders (though I could see that interfering with the climbing); it might strike a balance between always having to micromanage the rope and having to deal with the entire weight of the dead end. Will need some testing which I can't do right now. God I hate Florida.

J E wrote:

Just a few ideas:

Assuming you're not using the Revo for anything else: I would just leave it attached to the revo semi-permanently and load the rope by feeding is through (is this possible? My Revo is all packed up for a trip so I can't confirm). I went ahead and unpacked my revo to check. This is definitely doable. It will be less of a process of you put the revo on before establishing youre anchor that way you don't have to flake the entire dead side through it. With this in mid, this is probably my favorite option with the way your system is oriented.

Hmmm I haven't had good luck trying this. Will have to play with it more.

 Another option would be to ditch the idea of a hardware attachment altogether in favor of cord (using a clove hitch or poacher's knot to prevent unintentional opening of device). This is still slower and more finicky than a crab, but probably less of a headache than a QL since you just need to loosen the knot to open the Revo up. But a little sketch.

Hmmm... makes me think soft shackle maybe?

A third option -- which will solve the issue of being too long but not the orientation -- is to use a petzl omni or camp triad with the curved side oriented down (ergo, the intended setup :D). You'll cut out an impressive ~50mm of length with this.This is probably the best, least faffy option, though I wish there were one that allowed for sideways orientation of the revo

Pros: does indeed sit very high. Revo is fairly free to swivel on Petzl Omni which is important and Revo cannot do on some carabiners.

Cons: blue sling is partly engaged on nose, probably fine but it skeeves me slightly and it always moves back when I move it away. Not entirely sure what best setup for the sling that goes to the belay loop is. Just pushing it down as close to the Revo is probably fine? Every time you remove the Revo you either have to completely remove the sling or push the girth hitch over to the other side like so:

This is surprisingly fiddly to do and I'm thinking just removing the sling entirely might be faster. Maybe I'd get good at it with practice.

I tried putting all three slings through the Revo but they were too wide and contacted the rope and added friction. But that gave me the idea of putting the Revo sling that tethers to your belay loop through the Revo and then girth hitching the chest slings to that:

What do people think about the safety of this? Seems pretty bomber to me but am curious for input. 

It sits super high:

The downside is that it's a little fiddly as you have to lengthen the girth hitch on the yellow sling to open the Revo, but it isn't too bad.

I've been thinking of attaching a PCD to the leg loop or strapping it to my calf -- maybe even use one of the footstrap ascenders (though I could see that interfering with the climbing); it might strike a balance between always having to micromanage the rope and having to deal with the entire weight of the dead end. Will need some testing which I can't do right now. God I hate Florida.

I'm having a hard time understanding this. Maybe it's just that I'm very tired lately, or maybe I'm not a smart man, but I think I need to see this in action to understand wtf is going on and how it works. 

Regarding the Omni, I think you’ll have better luck with a proper chest harness 

e:

new setup, you could do something similar

Interesting idea. A few thoughts.

• It seems like you are struggling a bit with the chest harness part of this. Have you considered using something not rated to hold a fall, such as a Petzl Torse, to keep the Revo up? You could just girth hitch a sling through tie-in points and clip that to the Revo's biner, such that it would normally be slack but would catch you in a fall if the Lov failed and Revo engaged.
• Does the the Revo change how the rope feeds?
• I'd be concerned about getting smoked in the face with the Revo sitting so high, if it were to ever catch a fall

Delaney Bray-Stone wrote:

Interesting idea. A few thoughts.

• It seems like you are struggling a bit with the chest harness part of this. Have you considered using something not rated to hold a fall, such as a Petzl Torse, to keep the Revo up? You could just girth hitch a sling through tie-in points and clip that to the Revo's biner, such that it would normally be slack but would catch you in a fall if the Lov failed and Revo engaged.
• Does the the Revo change how the rope feeds?
• I'd be concerned about getting smoked in the face with the Revo sitting so high, if it were to ever catch a fall

Torse is a no go IMO because of choking hazard. One dude died on LRS that way, I ain't gonna go out that way, sounds fucking awful. 

The Revo doesn't really change how the rope feeds, no. 

Lol that might happen. Dunno what to do about it though. Hoping to never actually take an inverted fall, but at least if I do I won't fall very far, even if I get a bruised face. Falling to a trailing stopper knot on a grigri sounds way worse to me still. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

Torse is a no go IMO because of choking hazard. One dude died on LRS that way, I ain't gonna go out that way, sounds fucking awful. 

The Revo doesn't really change how the rope feeds, no. 

Lol that might happen. Dunno what to do about it though. Hoping to never actually take an inverted fall, but at least if I do I won't fall very far, even if I get a bruised face. Falling to a trailing stopper knot on a grigri sounds way worse to me still. 

Is there an accident and analysis report of that accident, by chance? 

Delaney Bray-Stone wrote:

Interesting idea. A few thoughts.

• It seems like you are struggling a bit with the chest harness part of this. Have you considered using something not rated to hold a fall, such as a Petzl Torse, to keep the Revo up? You could just girth hitch a sling through tie-in points and clip that to the Revo's biner, such that it would normally be slack but would catch you in a fall if the Lov failed and Revo engaged.
• Does the the Revo change how the rope feeds?
• I'd be concerned about getting smoked in the face with the Revo sitting so high, if it were to ever catch a fall

If you’re referring to my setup, I’ve made substantial changes already. Revo is now mounted on a steel ansi hms with a 120cm sling chest harness thing. Comes close-ish to the face but has not been an issue in my small fall tests.

nevermjnd, I see now you’re referring to Ricky’s. Unless the rope completely escapes from the lov (which seems astronomically unlikely and in doing so would probably be severed anyway) the revo will always be pulled down toward the lov not up at his face

ricky, you could do my setup but have the biner set higher and tether the biner to the belay loop. No need to worry’s about cross loading or anything since it will never see forces like that. Use a steel ansi so you don’t have to fret about the nose

Nathan Doyle wrote:

Is there an accident and analysis report of that accident, by chance? 

I'll ask Yann. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

I'll ask Yann. 

I'm also interested in this; a system I have in the works would be easiest making use of the torse. Though the torse wouldn't be connected to any of the load bearing parts so maybe it's fine

J E wrote:

I'm also interested in this; a system I have in the works would be easiest making use of the torse. Though the torse wouldn't be connected to any of the load bearing parts so maybe it's fine

Ricky and I talked offline a bit about the Torse. For TRS I have mine connected to a dogbone per the Petzl TRS guide. I'm trying to visualize it being a choke hazard in that configuration, since the dogbone holds it down and it can't (from all I can tell) pull up and towards the neck. It can also slip off the shoulder if need be and it can unclip from the back buckle, if it came to that.

It should be noted that the Torse isn't rated and is only for holding devices in place i.e. it's a strap, not a rated chest harness. 

The question we had was, could it still be used the same way, but in a manner that made sense for LRS and would it hold the Revo in the proper position (high up) and in the correct orientation etc.

In his setup he's using a sling with two knots in it, from his chest straps (slings) down to his harness and from my perspective that seems very similar to using a dogbone with the Torse. He can correct me if I interpreted him wrong, but I think he was thinking of the Torse being used without the connection to the harness, which would definitely be a no-no.

Also, I'm curious what Yann has to say; if it was a Torse that was being used during the accident or if it was a different setup. And if it was the Torse was it just free floating, so to speak, without being held down like is normally done for TRS.

From Yann: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vasuNoOq8Y23iIy4QfJGnXpCfVWUBKpm/view

It would seem that it is not clear if the strangling was actually the cause of death. Although it says it is likely. It does not state what sort of chest rig was used. The Petzl torse is likely fine if held down as Nate said. Whatever you do, use a lot of caution with your chest rig and think about the strangling potential.

Ricky Harline wrote:

From Yann: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vasuNoOq8Y23iIy4QfJGnXpCfVWUBKpm/view

It would seem that it is not clear if the strangling was actually the cause of death. Although it says it is likely. It does not state what sort of chest rig was used. The Petzl torse is likely fine if held down as Nate said. Whatever you do, use a lot of caution with your chest rig and think about the strangling potential.

There was a woman who died from strangulation do to a shoulder-slinged rack. Same idea. I never cross slings in the front but I will secure the front part of the torse from now on

You could probably attach the chest harness to your harness to stop it from riding up higher.

Ezra Henderson wrote:

You could probably attach the chest harness to your harness to stop it from riding up higher.

His is, that’s what the yellow sling running downwards is for

Ricky what is the additional attachment to your quickdraws that prevents the rope from back feeding?

Are you chest loops full strength? I appreciate this blog by Brent spelling out his method. I like that all of the chest linkage is low strength and can break in the event of a catastrophic fall reducing your risk of strangulation. https://www.brentbarghahn.com/climbing-blog/redpoint-rope-soloing-2021