Cheapest glue in setup?

There’s a crag with rock that sucks… like really sucks. But my twisted mind loves this crumbling mud and I want to replace/add some bolts. What is the cheapest glue-in setup I could buy? Nothing fancy, as this place gets climbed rarely and no one really cares but me and a few other people. Just something that will do the bare minimum. 

If possible, just top rope it. Bare minimum is not the attitude to have when placing glue-ins (or any fixed gear for that matter)

Glue ins are not cheap, the cheaper you go the more headache you will cause. A cheap chaulk gun will break. The cheaper glue options all will require eBay scavenging. The cheapest bolts are like $6.00. I would tr it if you can, use concrete screws for directionals then reuse the holes if you think it’s worth the glue ins.

That Guy wrote:

I mean if it’s as shitty and desolate as you say it is, you could just be totally ghetto and glue in some scrounged up grade 8 bolts with washers and sling them with nuts.  You didn’t hear that from me though.

Don't do that!

Your cheapest viable option is probably going to be twist bolts from team tough: https://www.team-tough.com/6mm-x-100mm-twist-bolt

I've periodically found liquidroc 500+ on ebay for $25 for the 20oz dual cartridges, but can't find it right now.

I have some 1/2" x 4" titen hd concrete screws with hangers filed out to fit.  I use them for developing and figuring out placements, then when I know the bolts are where I want them, upgrade to 6mm x 100mm twist bolts (using the same hole). If you decide the line isn't worth glue ins, remove the screws when you're done. 

https://youtube.com/shorts/PAaEUqM5i8o?feature=share

https://youtu.be/g9h5NPjxguI

You say it's bad but then you say you love it, others in the future will love it, too!  If you're not willing to spend the money to do it right, leave it for someone else.

Thanks all. Would love to more opinions! Yes, glue ins are not cheap, but the rock is so soft that they’re the only reasonable option. 

Seth Bleazardwrote:

Thanks all. Would love to more opinions! Yes, glue ins are not cheap, but the rock is so soft that they’re the only reasonable option. 

The only other thing which might save you a few bucks is to buy some quality stainless steel 3/8 wedge bolts and glue those into a 12 mm or half inch hole. This probably won't save money for new placements because you still have to buy a hanger, but if you can reuse hangers from rebolting, you might come out slightly ahead. But twist bolts are going to be more appreciated

Its possible fabricate glue in U-bolts cheaply, if you can source lengths of stainless steel round rod stock from an industrial steel supplier. This ONLY works in soft rock because you have to drill two holes very close together and you risk shattering hard rock.

Look up Australian guides - we go big on home made stuff because everything's so expensive to import down here. Reputable sources are Mike Law (his Soft Rock Bolting Guide) Steve Hawkshaw and Neil Monteith.

Jim Daywrote:

The only other thing which might save you a few bucks is to buy some quality stainless steel 3/8 wedge bolts and glue those into a 12 mm or half inch hole. This probably won't save money for new placements because you still have to buy a hanger, but if you can reuse hangers from rebolting, you might come out slightly ahead. But twist bolts are going to be more appreciated

If you're going to do that you might as well just buy 3/8" or 1/2' SS threaded steel rod,  it would be cheaper and you could go as long as you want. Put the nut on before you cut them off your worried about marring the threads.

DrRockso RRGwrote:

If you're going to do that you might as well just buy 3/8" or 1/2' SS threaded steel rod,  it would be cheaper and you could go as long as you want. Put the not on before you cut them off your worried about marring the threads.

Maybe but you can often find 3/8x5" ss wedge bolts for like, $2 a bolt, and they're going to be construction rated with rolled threads, and come with nut and washer, and you don't have to cut them.

3/8" x LONG construction screws? Or even 1/2" or even bigger?

Not trying to derail this thread, but all thread would undoubtedly be cheaper if sourced properly. All the allthread I've seen always has rolled threads, the same can't be said for all stud bolts in the market. You don't need a washer with a properly sized hanger, and SS nuts and insanely inexpensive when bought in bulk.  It's common practice in the construction industry for engineers to spec epoxied all thread, so I'm not sure the 'construction rating' or 'engineered fastener' ratings make the stud bolt a better option, especially given you aren't using it the way the manufacturer intended. There are some specialty stud bolts that are made to be injected with epoxy, but at a much,  much,  higher price point.  

I would personally use a 1/2" bolt for any 'soft rock'

At the end of the day,  twist bolts are the ticket,  unless like you said you just have a bunch of free hangers to throw at a project.  

We've epoxied allthread in the past for the purpose of attaching large flakes with good success when the length of bolt we wanted wasn't readily available. 

Ok, but you could buy these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-Wedge-All-3-8-in-x-5-in-Type-304-Stainless-Steel-Expansion-Anchor-50-Pack-WA375004SS/205302261

And they have an H stamped on the head so nobody has to guess if you glued in 1" or 10" of all thread.  And you don't have to cut them

If the nature of the rock is as bad as you imply, to where you can't clean it back to reasonably stable rock, then holds are going to be changing, including clipping holds. You will end up with bolts that no longer match up with the natural line and awkward or non existent clipping stances. and a bunch of ugly useless crap sticking out of the wall that is not easily removed and patched. That sounds like an abortion. Presuming this is on public land, that seems like a selfish misuse imo

K thanks everyone! What about glue?

I kinda trust internet speculation about rock quality 0 percent. For some anything that isn’t a granite dome is choss. Meanwhile you have places where you can etch your name into the rock that are super popular. There are plenty of places where the bed rock is fine about an .5 inch deep but all the holds are trash, most these places end up drilled or glued to the point that it is definitely manufacturing(no judgement).

Given that your to do list is southwest Oregon I am guessing it’s volcanic tuff, which tends to have amazing but often insanely fragile holds with solid rock underneath. You can actually buy a winch off the internet and rig that to a bolt and see what happens… make sure a rope doesn’t snap in your direction.

The bolting bible has some glue recommendations, I think ac100 is the best I have worked with but I end up with the sika from Lowe’s cause I’m lazy. A Lowe’s employee once forgot to scan 2 tubes so I saved liked $60.

Alan watts always seems to bring up, “everyone kept saying I was bolting choss….”  Maybe you found the next smith!! Check who the land owner is but generally the worst outcome you will get is a negative review from some person who fancies themselves as a rock connoisseur!! Stay psyched!!

A pretty good deal for ac100 on ebay:

Item 115753819592

That stuff cures fast, though, depending on temperature.  I prefer liquidroc 500 for the longer working time if you can find it.  But if it's cold where you're at AC100 is great!

For the climbs that you want to rebolt, you could reach out to the ASCA and see if they can donate some bolts and glue to cut down on your costs.  Then you can spend more of your personal budget on developing new routes.

Tyler Gateswrote:

For the climbs that you want to rebolt, you could reach out to the ASCA and see if they can donate some bolts and glue to cut down on your costs.  Then you can spend more of your personal budget on developing new routes.

Best use of their funds? Remember he said it was a shitty crag that was very seldom climbed on. Yes, choss can result in some great sport routes, but it takes a huge amount of dedication, and if you are going to do that then it deserves putting in good quality bolts and not cheaping out. 

As far as bolts go, I'd add my plug for the TT Twist bolts once really sure of your placements. I pretty much went to using them exclusively. Remember, cost wise you are saving the price of a separate hanger, so they are cheaper than a 1/2" 5 pc, and I like them so much better.

What about using the Sika anchoring adhesive and a 3/8" stainless eye bolt - https://www.lowes.com/pd/National-Hardware/5013378139  ??

Matt Bwrote:

What about using the Sika anchoring adhesive and a 3/8" stainless eye bolt - https://www.lowes.com/pd/National-Hardware/5013378139  ??

Not strong enough, you would have to weld the eye and countersink and it would still be too sketchy

Jim Daywrote:

Not strong enough, you would have to weld the eye and countersink and it would still be too sketchy

Total sketch, and all to save 3 bucks (eye roll). I bet you could easily save or make the same amount of money somewhere else in your life with little effort. The smaller Twist bolts are only $3 more and high quality https://www.team-tough.com/