how can I descend my static line to get to my dynamic line rappel?

Hey all,

So I've been climbing in spots where I use 2 trees as anchors often, and then I make sure to drop down the middle of the static rope anchor past any sharp rocks / ledges. Typically this means that the anchor is maybe 3 or 4 ft down the cliff.

I can walk around the cliff but to save time I want to rappel down the rope I just dropped, or to clean I want to top-out on a climb (I'll reserve the top out for another question, but I don't know how to safely do this either).

This often feels very unsafe. I want to know how to do it better.

My current process is as follows:

1. Drop static rope anchor with climbing rope tied in.
2. tie clove hitch along 1 strand of the static rope onto my petzl connect
3. slowly decend the cliff by lengthening the petzl connect.
4. when at max length, tie another clove below me and attach a sling to that.
5. disconnect my petzl connect from top clove and connect it to a third clove below
6. weight on the connect again and lengthen etc etc till I get to the dynamic rope anchor.
7. when at the anchor, I connect my normall ATC rappel setup to the actuall climbing rope, eventually disconnect the petzl connect and then rap down.

I overall don't like this process, too many cloves haha. How can I do it better? How can I not be on 1 point of safety? etc etc? Is this maybe just not a thing I should try at all?

You might like the Joshua Tree method of building a static rope anchor. The key piece of equipment linked in the video below that you haven't mentioned is a GriGri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbeZfrfIXs

When rigging the static line, leave enough tail coming off one of the trees to reach the master point. Rappel using a grigri to the masterpoint and tie an overhand in the brake strand. Set up your rappel on the dynamic line, including a third hand. Untie the overhand on the static line, keep rappelling until you're held by the dynamic line. Remove the grigri end rap the dynamic line. 

I highly recommend picking up the book The Single Pitch Instructor Manual. It has a ton of detail about rigging anchors with a static line. 

BG and Adam are correct.  You build a tether into the system.  Tie a bowline on a bight and back it up with a double overhand.  Make the tail of the knot long enough to reach your intended master point.  Tie a stopper knot on the end of the tail so you can't rap of the end of the tether.  Use the main side of the knot as one side of your anchor.  Put a grigri on the single strand tether and rap to the master point location.  Tie a knot behind the grigri before your take your hand of the brake strand.  Then, tie your MP knot and hang the rope.  At that point, you can ascend back up the tether using the grigri or put your ATC (with backup) on the climbing rope, test that connection, then disconnect grigri from tether and rap the two strands of the climbing rope.  That enables you to clean the route, place directionals, etc.

Thanks everyone! This all makes so much sense, I feel stupid for not thinking about it haha. I'm glad I asked! I do own a grigri so this is totally possible for me.

For ascending I guess I can just ascend that strand as Jay said. 

This a massive help, I feel a lot better about it now.

Suleiman Barakat wrote: For ascending I guess I can just ascend that strand as Jay said. 

Right! Maybe you leave your ascender fixed to the static line, climb your TR for the last time, throw your grigri on the starting line while still at the anchor, go off belay, jug up and clean everything.

Typically, you can ascend with just the grigri - you basically haul yourself back up with feet on rocks and hands on rope.  No other device needed.  This assumes slab or maybe vertical terrain.

My system for rappel in ice climbing was:

• Using two trees (They were conveniently located) create an equalized master point, but for one of the two trees have a really long tail (long enough to reach a few feet beyond the MP)
• Thread the rope for TR climbing into the MP (opposed lockers). Drop the rope below the lip quick to verify everything lies where it should (rope makes it to the ground, anchor lines aren't on any bad edges or anything)
• Pull the MP above the lip, setup my rappel (3rd hand below the device) within a few inches of the MP
• Using the free strand on one of the trees, rap to the MP (I used a munter on a HMS, but the grigri suggestions sounds way better, I didn't have one at the time)
• Weight the rappel setup, tie a backup knot 
  • (Upon typing this out, I have no idea why I didn't tie the backup knot before rapping over the lip...)
• Release the munter, release the backup knot, rappel as normal

The downside/risk to this is if you mess up your initial rappel, you're essentially falling onto a fully static anchor since there will only be a few inches of rope in the system. 

Regarding the top-out: assuming your climbing rope is dynamic, you could just lead climb past the anchor.

Regarding the rappel: Joshua tree system is great.  However, if you don't have enough static line for that, then you could use your climbing rope to rappel off a bombproof tree down to your anchor.  You could add redundancy to the tree by clipping your master point to one rope strand above your rappel device. 

The cool thing about clove hitches is you can move them along the rope without untying them.  One could even rope solo this way. 

Estimate length of static rope to loop/toprope anchor. Uncoil and find middle of toproping rope, clip it into two biners in opposition. Set up your rappel device just below the biners, tie a loose overhand stopper knot on a bight a couple feet below your device. Toss the toprope. Hand walk one of your double statics backwards over the edge until your harness is just below the biners and your device comes into play. Grab the toprope below your device and above the stopper knot. Untie loose stopper with free hand and rappel.

If you’re scared, girth hitch a shoulder length runner to your belay loop and clip a locker on one of the statics for back up. If you’re REALLY scared, join your statics with a big bight, so you have two ropes in hand, use two runners and tie another bight, or two in the two static anchor ropes, above the edge and move your backups down as you go over.

It Ain’t Rocket Science™️

LMFAO. The last time I used the word biner on top of Qual Springs, my Bro almost threw me off the rock because I didnt know or care. like totally ignorant about racial slurs lol. And I guess there was a group of mexicans that like didnt take it well. LMFAO like why would I even fear the word biners like about that. LOL.. Sorry OFF topic but very funny.

Charles stop posting on MP drunk 

charles price wrote:

LMFAO. The last time I used the word biner on top of Qual Springs, my Bro almost threw me off the rock because I didnt know or care. like totally ignorant about racial slurs lol. And I guess there was a group of mexicans that like didnt take it well. LMFAO like why would I even fear the word biners like about that. LOL.. Sorry OFF topic but very funny.

Please keep posting drunk.  And maybe consider new friends.  I parted ways with people like that and life has only gotten better.  Even though the odds seem overwhelming, there are many of us who don't agree with the current thing. 

José Flovin wrote:

Charles stop posting on MP drunk 

LOL first wasn't drunk. Second what the heck are u talking about. I said nothing wrong and no cussing no disrespect. (at least from what I read.) maybe I like didnt realize something I may have posted. but I just don't see it. So like whatever.

José Flovin wrote:

Charles stop posting on MP drunk 

Oh hell no,

Charles is like my new like favorite MP'er like totally.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

Glenn Schuler wrote:

Oh hell no,

Charles is like my new like favorite MP'er like totally.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

A Munter still requires gear from what I have just read. In the 70's and early 80's there was no such thing as a belay device, Although u could at least rappel with 4 carabiners and in the early 80s there was no such concept of a climbing boot. EB's were the first boot I had during that time. next fav boot would be the Feries (sp). 

So like Guys/Gals  if U think my posts dont have merit or off base( or thinking I'm drunk) Except for that 1 thread  were yeah was drunk and not on  my meds (bi-polar) Don't be afraid to tell me just that. IF I'm such a drunken ASSHxxxx. I cant fix anything about my personality If you cant give me constructive Feedback in which I would respect. So "like" let it lose. So should I add "Totally" in that as well

charles price wrote:

A Munter still requires gear from what I have just read. In the 70's and early 80's there was no such thing as a belay device, Although u could at least rappel with 4 carabiners and in the early 80s there was no such concept of a climbing boot. EB's were the first boot I had during that time. next fav boot would be the Feries (sp). 

So like Guys/Gals  if U think my posts dont have merit or off base( or thinking I'm drunk) Except for that 1 thread  were yeah was drunk and not on  my meds (bi-polar) Don't be afraid to tell me just that. IF I'm such a drunken ASSHxxxx. I cant fix anything about my personality If you cant give me constructive Feedback in which I would respect. So "like" let it lose.

Just messing around Charles, be yourself, keep posting.  

charles price wrote:

A Munter still requires gear from what I have just read.

Only a locking biner.

 In the 70's and early 80's there was no such thing as a belay device,

100% not true.

Although u could at least rappel with 4 carabiners and in the early 80s there was no such concept of a climbing boot. EB's were the first boot I had during that time.

Also 100% not true. EB's were developed in 1968; PA's pre-dated them by 10+ years.

So like Guys/Gals  if U think my posts dont have merit or off base( or thinking I'm drunk) Except for that 1 thread  were yeah was drunk and not on  my meds (bi-polar) Don't be afraid to tell me just that. IF I'm such a drunken ASSHxxxx. I cant fix anything about my personality If you cant give me constructive Feedback in which I would respect. So "like" let it lose. So should I add "Totally" in that as well

Could you maybe learn to spell? Or at least use a spell checker? And stop thinking you know climbing history.

So you got some yrs on me. And provided good info. I only went with my recollection.  When I learned to climb from my dad who was my brothers scout troop.

When first introduced to climbing we used the old like not synthetic rope. you know like the brown rope, Dont give me shit on this when I just dont know the name of that type of rope. Spell Checker huh. Every post (mostly) has been run through the spell checker on MS WORD. So let's get too the friggen point. What have I said that is wrong with my feedback? What have I said that was wrong with my post. EB's like only got my first pair at 10. Fierrais (SP?)  So your older than me. have known the ropes better than me. Does that Diminish my experience in climbing. No I think not. except for that horrible thread I posted on and embarrassed myself/destroyed my cred.  And I dont pretend to know climbing history and have never tried to put anything like that to people on this forum. What is it u don't like about me? I dont consider me a better climber than anyone else. BUT as with U I only post what I know about. Am I like considered a TROLL/GOBLIN Whatever. I don't know how I have offended U personally. JUST let it go. Tell me every name u want to call me. Tell me I'm ignorant. Tell me I'm an ass. How can we get on the same page. except for those 2 horrible posts/threads  what do you want with me. I havent lied, I've shared opinions only out of experience. WTF do U Want from me. Be Honest and give me all u want. Let it Out. And lets come to a better understanding of each other. I'm NOT evil, I'm nowhere close to being a top climber. Please I really want us to get past that. If you think my responses are BS, tell me now.

Fires - pronounced Fee - rays

Hope that helps

The brown rope was a goldline

Thx KW those were the words I was looking for :)