Guidbook authors: if you give detailed gear info, put it in BD sizes pls ; )

Tradibanwrote:

Adventure IS overrated!

If you're going to give me gear beta, at least make it useful. 

If you've ever repeated a route that you saw on this site or in a guidebook with detailed route descriptions you probably got gear beta spray. Even 'standard rack' is gear beta, because if that weren't sufficient they'd have specified otherwise. 

I would rather have a description say 'standard rack' than "standard rack to 3"" and try to guess whether the guidebook author is using the "#3 is 3" shorthand, which isn't true but is commonly held, or trying to tell me to bring a #4. I'm not saying I want the lowdown on which pieces to bring on every climb and where to put them, but when a guidebook lists the gear for every route it might as well be in a format that actually conveys what they want to tell me.

MattHwrote:

If you're going to give me gear beta, at least make it useful. 

If you've ever repeated a route that you saw on this site or in a guidebook with detailed route descriptions you probably got gear beta spray. Even 'standard rack' is gear beta, because if that weren't sufficient they'd have specified otherwise. 

I would rather have a description say 'standard rack' than "standard rack to 3"" and try to guess whether the guidebook author is using the "#3 is 3" shorthand, which isn't true but is commonly held, or trying to tell me to bring a #4. I'm not saying I want the lowdown on which pieces to bring on every climb and where to put them, but when a guidebook lists the gear for every route it might as well be in a convenient format that actually conveys what they want to tell me.

Guidebook authors aren’t exactly gunning for a pulitzer and the others are vague on purpose. Check MP for more specific beta.

Patrick Wilderwrote:

well think of it this way- a number one is about 1 in. a number 2 is about... 2 in. and a 3? you guessed it- about 2.5 in

A BD #1 is actually for a 1.5 inch or so crack.  For a 1 inch crack you would need a 0.5 BD.  Don't know why BD names them the way they do.  

Jeff Gwrote:

Sorry, but I think MattH is right on here.  I’ve seen 1” mean anything from a .4 through #1 Camelot.

This is the real problem - we don't know which authors really mean inches (vs mistakenly calling BD sizes "inches").  BD sizes would be unambiguous.

As Tradiban says, just stick with the Proj and then you can read the 100 or so comments and get your rack sorted down to the order of placement, probably have a video too. Guidebook authors for the most part do it for love as they usually make about 10 cents an hour for all the work put in. Yes, there are some dodgy guides around but at least they tried, give them some credit instead of nit picking on size's, which really is ridiculous.

I'm guessing you were not climbing in Yosemite 20 years ago as you would have had a conniption with Don Reid's guide ;) Which guidebook got you back up by the way?

Biggest and smallest piece (in inches, with a conversion table like in the Yosemite Valley Sloan guide) would be handy. Then I know how to bracket the rack to throw in my bag and I don’t bring enough or bring too much, that’s on me for not looking at the route.

I do like books that have the inches to various brands of gear tables like the creek books, Valley book, or really any heavily trad area

Bro I can bolt a 25 foot 5.6 and a week later don’t remember how many bolts I placed. 

I don’t feel vehement about almost any topics on MP, but absolutely, positively guidebook beta, presuming it’s given at all must be in cm or inches. I’m sorry, but I’m not even going to bother making an argument about this. This is just the way it’s going to be. End of story.
I have spoken!

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Bro I can bolt a 25 foot 5.6 and a week later don’t remember how many bolts I placed. 

Knowing you, it’s probably about 5. 

Hey, it’s me. I’m here to save the day. 

Every modern guidebook should include this bit of advice: "Be sure to bring a binky."

you can only please some climbers some of the time, with some of the climbs.

Being vague in the description is the best way IMO, too much beta kills the onsight. I hate it when someone submits a route description online that literally tells you every move and every piece to plug.

The authors are doing you a favor by letting you know that there are options, as multiple sized pieces will accommodate placements across a given range, even if it’s narrow. The information you’re looking for might one day get you in trouble in the event you’re not able to locate specific sized placements or climb past them without realizing it. 

MattHwrote:

If you're going to give me gear beta, at least make it useful. 

If you've ever repeated a route that you saw on this site or in a guidebook with detailed route descriptions you probably got gear beta spray. Even 'standard rack' is gear beta, because if that weren't sufficient they'd have specified otherwise. 

I would rather have a description say 'standard rack' than "standard rack to 3"" and try to guess whether the guidebook author is using the "#3 is 3" shorthand, which isn't true but is commonly held, or trying to tell me to bring a #4. I'm not saying I want the lowdown on which pieces to bring on every climb and where to put them, but when a guidebook lists the gear for every route it might as well be in a format that actually conveys what they want to tell me.

Um, that's exactly what you're saying.

Jeff Gwrote:

Specifying by inches when no one knows what your measuring is more idiotic.

That makes no sense. The width of a crack is the only valid metric.Learn how to translate a crack size to what you have for a rack.

  Any good trad climber can convert between different brands without any difficulty.

Total nonsense.

Marc801 Cwrote: Total nonsense.

Whatever.

I don’t really care, I just thought the OP made a good point.  I have no difficulty deciding what to bring when the guidebook says 2” piece or whatever.  And I have zero difficulty figuring out how to translate BD sizes into any other brand or vice versa.

Rocrateswrote:

Knowing you, it’s probably about 5. 

Three of which are in bad spots cause very little thought went into it

I demand all guidebooks be republished with photos showing what pieces to use and exactly where to place them.

Robert Swrote:

I demand all guidebooks be republished with photos showing what pieces to use and exactly where to place them.

Funny story, I posted basically this exact comment word for word just now.  I hit post reply and see that someone else already beat me to it.