Guidbook authors: if you give detailed gear info, put it in BD sizes pls ; )

I was looking through a guidebook for an upcoming trip and realized: I vastly prefer knowing the actual gear for a pitch vs the size in inches. No author is getting out a tape measure, they're just converting from the pieces they placed back into inches. Then, you have to convert that inches measurement back into cam sizes, hoping the guidebook author's conversion was the same as the conversion you're doing back into gear sizes.

If the reference cam set is the most common one (C4s, for example), then the plurality of readers have no work to do, and even if you own a different set of cams it's way easier to just memorize the conversion between cam sets than to know the usable/effective inch size range of every cam you own (which most manufacturers don't report in a convenient format, instead reporting the max range).

I'd honestly rather have a parsimonious route description for anything below like 5.12. Let me figure it out. "Light Rack", "Standard Rack", "Extra small gear", etc. should suffice. But if you're going to give me the full spray down, just tell me what you want to tell me.

EDIT: modifying the title for added clarity

I think the other side of the argument is that it's easy to correlate cam sizes to inches. And since not everyone owns the same brands of cams, an inches measurement is more standard.

well think of it this way- a number one is about 1 in. a number 2 is about... 2 in. and a 3? you guessed it- about 2.5 in

MattHwrote:

I was looking through a guidebook for an upcoming trip and realized: I vastly prefer knowing the actual gear used on a pitch vs the size in inches. No author is getting out a tape measure, they're just converting from the pieces they placed back into inches. Then, you have to convert that inches measurement back into cam sizes, hoping the guidebook author's conversion was the same as the conversion you're doing back into gear sizes.

If the reference cam set is the most common one (C4s, for example), then the plurality of readers have no work to do, and even if you own a different set of cams it's way easier to just memorize the conversion between cam sets than to know the usable/effective inch size range of every cam you own (which most manufacturers don't report in a convenient format, instead reporting the max range).

Ok, you're telling me the crack is doubles in 1.2". Great! What is it really? Purple totem? 0.75 c4? Red metolius? Tell me the actual info you know not some eyeballed translation to a different scale.

lol.  I like beta in inches.  Nobody knows what a gold bigbro is or a chartreuse 1992 trango might have been.

Life is hard

I like body parts. Inches gets confusing because I never know if they mean a bd 1 inch or ruler 1 inch. And gear is confusing because I didn’t climb with aliens much and everybody who puts up routes uses them for reference.

In reality though, I can’t climb the route with the same rack as the authors without shitting my pants. You do t know what you need until after you have it wired.

MattHwrote:

I was looking through a guidebook for an upcoming trip and realized: I vastly prefer knowing the actual gear used on a pitch vs the size in inches. No author is getting out a tape measure, they're just converting from the pieces they placed back into inches. Then, you have to convert that inches measurement back into cam sizes, hoping the guidebook author's conversion was the same as the conversion you're doing back into gear sizes.

If the reference cam set is the most common one (C4s, for example), then the plurality of readers have no work to do, and even if you own a different set of cams it's way easier to just memorize the conversion between cam sets than to know the usable/effective inch size range of every cam you own (which most manufacturers don't report in a convenient format, instead reporting the max range).

Ok, you're telling me the crack is doubles in 1.2". Great! What is it really? Purple totem? 0.75 c4? Red metolius? Tell me the actual info you know not some eyeballed translation to a different scale.

This is an issue??? Learn your gear sizes, look at the route, stop wanting every conceivable fractional ounce of beta.

Relax folks (edit: to clarify: specifically, Marc above who seems incensed at the very premise that if someone's going to spray gear beta i'd rather have it in a useful format). This is just a pet peeve/stylistic preference. For trad climbs I bring the same rack for almost everything unless the guidebook is specific about a particular size (usually, purple+green c3, doubles from red c3 to #2, and a #3), but if the guidebook says something like "make sure to have triples in 0.75" or, as is common on a mixed climb "Bring 10 draws and a 1" piece for the runout to the anchors", I'd rather know the actual piece to bring.

Don't get me started on the body part sizing nonsense. Whose fingers? Whose fist?

MattHwrote:

Relax folks! This is just a pet peeve/stylistic preference, not a big deal in the slightest. For trad climbs I bring the same rack for almost everything unless the guidebook is specific about a particular size (a single purple+green c3, doubles from red c3 to #2, and a single #3), but if the guidebook says something like "make sure to have triples in 0.75" or, as is common on a mixed climb "Bring 10 draws and a 1" piece for the runout to the anchors", I'd rather know the actual piece to bring.

Don't get me started on the body part sizing nonsense. Whose fingers? Whose fist?

Just because everyone disagreed with you doesn't mean they're not relaxed.

Hahaha! Maybe guide book authors should write descriptions with just you in mind.

I've got to agree with Matt. If I'm writing a route description on MP or giving beta to someone, I usually try to give the gear beta in terms of BD cam sizes or body parts (tips, fingers, wide hands, etc). Lots of people seem to think BD cam numbers represent inches, which is not true. For example, a 1" cam is a BD #0.5 not a #1. But I think most people can pretty easily convert BD cam sizes to other brands, so to me that's a better way to accurately convey the information to the most people. 

But also I don't think it's a huge deal, and if the route description is in terms of inches I'll maybe bring some extra pieces in case the author did their conversions differently (although, as someone else said upthread, I usually bring more gear than recommended in the guidebook description anyways).  

Don't you just rock up to a climb and look at it and make judgement call when you get there???  What would you do if you ever thought about doing an FA?

This is a total non issue

"Be the change you want to see in the world." 

If you think something sucks, make it better, and see how your wares fare.  I'd agree youre off the mark on this poorly thought out complaint.  Bringin a lamb to slaughter on this ruthless site.  

And how do l convert #2 camalot to a tricam??  I know how big an inch is.  

MattHwrote:

Don't get me started on the body part sizing nonsense. Whose fingers? Whose fist?

The king’s…. duh?

Sorry, but I think MattH is right on here.  I’ve seen 1” mean anything from a .4 through #1 Camelot.  Just say .4 Camelot or orange Metolius or whatever cam brand you want, but not inches.

MattHwrote:

I was looking through a guidebook for an upcoming trip and realized: I vastly prefer knowing the actual gear used on a pitch vs the size in inches. No author is getting out a tape measure, they're just converting from the pieces they placed back into inches. Then, you have to convert that inches measurement back into cam sizes, hoping the guidebook author's conversion was the same as the conversion you're doing back into gear sizes.

If the reference cam set is the most common one (C4s, for example), then the plurality of readers have no work to do, and even if you own a different set of cams it's way easier to just memorize the conversion between cam sets than to know the usable/effective inch size range of every cam you own (which most manufacturers don't report in a convenient format, instead reporting the max range).

Ok, you're telling me the crack is doubles in 1.2". Great! What is it really? Purple totem? 0.75 c4? Red metolius? Tell me the actual info you know not some eyeballed translation to a different scale.

Yes, and while we’re at it why don’t they just tell me which exact pieces to use on the climb at appropriate spots. They did the climb, presumably, so what gives with not sharing the beta.

Jeff Gwrote:

Sorry, but I think MattH is right on here.  I’ve seen 1” mean anything from a .4 through #1 Camelot.  Just say .4 Camelot or orange Metolius or whatever cam brand you want, but not inches.

Because not everyone knows the sizes of cams they don't own. Specifying by brand is simply idiotic.

People who express gear sizes in anything but BD sizes are annoying techno-geek engineers who just are trying to be special snowflakes. DMM Dragons? Inches? Body parts? Might as well tell me how many bushels of naught point two farthing cubits to bring. Camalots are the universal language.

Marc801 Cwrote:

Because not everyone knows the sizes of cams they don't own. Specifying by brand is simply idiotic.

Specifying by inches when no one knows what your measuring is more idiotic.  Any good trad climber can convert between different brands without any difficulty.

MattHwrote:

I was looking through a guidebook for an upcoming trip and realized: I vastly prefer knowing the actual gear used on a pitch vs the size in inches. No author is getting out a tape measure, they're just converting from the pieces they placed back into inches. Then, you have to convert that inches measurement back into cam sizes, hoping the guidebook author's conversion was the same as the conversion you're doing back into gear sizes.

If the reference cam set is the most common one (C4s, for example), then the plurality of readers have no work to do, and even if you own a different set of cams it's way easier to just memorize the conversion between cam sets than to know the usable/effective inch size range of every cam you own (which most manufacturers don't report in a convenient format, instead reporting the max range).

Ok, you're telling me the crack is doubles in 1.2". Great! What is it really? Purple totem? 0.75 c4? Red metolius? Tell me the actual info you know not some eyeballed translation to a different scale.

Adventure IS overrated!

Inches, cam sizes. How convenient. But, you know, it’s all beta and blows the onsight.