Indian Creek in a Tesla

Petsfed 00wrote:

I mean, it's not like making a vehicle in general is super green. But even factoring in grid (in)efficiencies, your pollution production per mile is generally less in an EV than in an ICEV. I think the core argument is that, over the lifetime of the vehicle, from resource extraction clear to eventual disposal, an EV produces less pollution. Lithium mining is an ugly process, but oil extraction isn't great either and it's way more widespread.

Lotta folks disingenuously let the perfect be the enemy of the good when it comes to EVs. As to Teslas specifically, well, that's a whole other issue.

An intelligent argument on MP is like trying to purify an ocean of piss.

Nathan Sullivanwrote:

Y'all need to lay off the haterade.

I haven't tried in my Y, but I did drive my Wrangler 4xE PHEV there last November. I charged at the AirBnB we stayed at using the 120V (after asking permission of course!) overnight each night. So I at least used a little less gas, yay.

Let's see, from the Monticello, where we stayed, to Supercrack and the lot is ~30 miles. So that's a 60 mile minimum round trip to the creek. The Y gets around 4 MPH from the 120V, so you'd need 15 hours to put that energy back, assuming ideal consumption. Add more for super cold weather, fast driving or crags deep into the creek. Yeah, that's either not going to work, or will barely work with steadily decreasing state-of-charge over your climbing days.

Of course if you both do that, and blast the thing up to 80 or 90% SoC with the Moab supercharger, it would probably work fine. I'm considering taking my Y next time to find out, honestly. I also have the CCS adapter and have used it around CO, but I have no idea how good the Monticello station is.

The Monticello CCS station is my plan A and seems to have pretty good reviews on plug share. Seems like a trip report will be useful to others so as long as the creek isn't too high, I think I'm gonna send it in the Y, if not we will take the GFs car.

Go for it! I’ve never been to the creek but the task seems manageable even in a standard range Tesla. Looking forward to your trip report. 

ryan climbs sometimes wrote:

real climbers tow with Fords 

Powerstroke over Cummins? ...Lol nah

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Good luck getting a new Tesla for $43k unless you are building /custom ordering, which I don’t even know if you can. Most new Teslas are going to have at least $7500 worth of add ons which negates any “federal tax credit” that one would receive. 

And what is one getting with this $7500?  Outside of being dumb enough to buy the "Full Self Driving" option for $15k, there's absolutely very little to buy after you get the vehicle.  Floor mats and done--Amazon for ~$150 or sumpin.  Weird comment. 

Bottom line is that people are assholes. A new pickup truck costs 70k but no one to bitches about that yet they pile on anyone with an EV or a nice van. If the van is a shit box it gets accused of being a sex offender. You can't win with this crowd.

zosowrote:

And what is one getting with this $7500?  Outside of being dumb enough to buy the "Full Self Driving" option for $15k, there's absolutely very little to buy after you get the vehicle.  Floor mats and done--Amazon for ~$150 or sumpin.  Weird comment. 

Context 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Bottom line is that people are assholes. A new pickup truck costs 70k but no one to bitches about that yet they pile on anyone with an EV or a nice van. If the van is a shit box it gets accused of being a sex offender. You can't win with this crowd.

Nah, we still make fun of them too. Drive a Subaru? We’ll make fun of you! Tacoma? You bet your pansy truckin’ ass we making fun of you too!

Besides $70k trucks usually fit in to the local communities where climbing takes places (not the climbing community) much better. A $70k F150 is not going to turn heads in Orangeville, UT, for example, whereas a Teslas might…same with many other areas where climbing takes place around the US. I think this is probably why teslas, vans, etc. are easy targets for many.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

The Monticello CCS station is my plan A and seems to have pretty good reviews on plug share. Seems like a trip report will be useful to others so as long as the creek isn't too high, I think I'm gonna send it in the Y, if not we will take the GFs car.

You might know this already, but be aware that Tesla won't always precondition for CCS stations. If you arrive in Monticello with a cold battery, you might be charging a while!

The life hack to fix that is set your nav to a close Supercharger while actually driving over to the CCS station but that doesn't always work either. They really need to add a manual button.

Lot of ignorance in the world. saw a pickup truck in Custer that had a bunch of stupid mods done to it sporting a large sticker that said Liberals Suck. I wanted to write Ignorance Sucks on the truck but not worth getting killed over it...

So many trips to the creek are about maximizing your time.

These are 2 or 3 day quick trips where you roll in fairly late and get home also fairly late.

How long does it take to charge? Especially if no supercharger is available? Will there be a line at the charging stations since we’re squarely in the middle of tourist season? Are you willing to take your time when your friends are already asleep at camp?

I certainly think a Tesla would be possible for a few days there, assuming you aren’t off roading. It might be pretty annoying for the overall trip though.

Petsfed 00wrote:

I mean, it's not like making a vehicle in general is super green. But even factoring in grid (in)efficiencies, your pollution production per mile is generally less in an EV than in an ICEV. I think the core argument is that, over the lifetime of the vehicle, from resource extraction clear to eventual disposal, an EV produces less pollution. Lithium mining is an ugly process, but oil extraction isn't great either and it's way more widespread.

Lotta folks disingenuously let the perfect be the enemy of the good when it comes to EVs. As to Teslas specifically, well, that's a whole other issue.

Did you ever see the dust to dust report that found that when you accounted for the mineral extraction, refining, transportation of material, manufacturing, life span (fuel and maintenance, and disposal of a car that the hummer had a lower carbon footprint than the prius. That report is probably over 15 years old now and took over 5 years for a team to research and compile but it was pretty damming.

Just a few years ago mazda was claiming that their ICE cars had a lower to equivalent carbon footprint.

The increase in solar and wind will have tipped things in favor of EV, but we still don't have a way to effectively recycle, solar cells, wind turbines, or lithium ion batteries which are all massive problems as all of those are starting to reach end of life. Tesle has reused some old car batteries for grid storage, solar is often sold off to a 3rd world country for cheap but these are just making it some one else's problem. 

Green is not actually very green yet. 

Also teslas are known to frequently over estimate range making planning more difficult. 

Conner there are a couple of small rv places in Monticello. If you wanted to combine your charging time with a hot shower, or even an overnight charging/stay to recharge when you arrive/leave, you could just call one of those places and see if they would allow that for some fee. I assume you’re car/tent camping. I don’t know anything about charging stations or charging adaptors, so no idea if this is at all feasible but I thought I’d throw it out there. 

jacob m swrote:

The increase in solar and wind will have tipped things in favor of EV, but we still don't have a way to effectively recycle, solar cells, wind turbines, or lithium ion batteries which are all massive problems as all of those are starting to reach end of life. Tesle has reused some old car batteries for grid storage, solar is often sold off to a 3rd world country for cheap but these are just making it some one else's problem.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/17/1066915/tesla-former-cto-battery-recycling/amp/

The founder/ real brains behind Tesla is building a massive plant right now. 

What a lie we tell ourselves that the climbing “community “ is inclusive and open-minded! The guy just asked a simple question, specifically aimed at people who might have first-hand knowledge on the topic. The majority of replies were basically attacks on his choice of auto and assumptions (and judgements) about his socioeconomic situation.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Lot of ignorance in the world. saw a pickup truck in Custer that had a bunch of stupid mods done to it sporting a large sticker that said Liberals Suck. I wanted to write Ignorance Sucks on the truck but not worth getting killed over it...

 

It’s all about perspective, from their small little world I‘m sure they think the same thing about the LGBTQ+ stickers they see on the Subarus invading their small rural community to climb. Doesn’t make it right, and I do wish people would place an “ignorance sucks“ sticker on those people’s car/truck a-la Wall Drug style.

FWIW I’ve seen far worse stickers than “Liberal Suck” from both sides.

Teton Tomwrote:

What a lie we tell ourselves that the climbing “community “ is inclusive and open-minded! The guy just asked a simple question, specifically aimed at people who might have first-hand knowledge on the topic. The majority of replies were basically attacks on his choice of auto and assumptions (and judgements) about his socioeconomic situation.

Tom, you don’t peruse mountainproject with much frequency do ya? The whole inclusive and open minded thing is, and has been a myth, since the beginning of climbing. From the beginnings of bolted climbing with Harding vs Robins to how clique’d up places like SLC are today. There is not nearly as much open minded or inclusiveness as a whole as people want to believe.  

Can we start assigning T grades to climbs? We can make it like the Brit E grades (since apparently we allow them on MP too...), this new grade will consist of 2 parts; (1) difficulty associated with the charging grid, and (2) how scary it is to drive a tesla in that area. I think this will be a good way to provide inclusiveness and allow out EV brethren to extend their good will further than the gym-chargers will allow them

ryan climbs sometimes wrote:

real climbers tow with Fords 

But then who tows the ford? 

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsionwrote:

So many trips to the creek are about maximizing your time.

These are 2 or 3 day quick trips where you roll in fairly late and get home also fairly late.

How long does it take to charge? Especially if no supercharger is available? Will there be a line at the charging stations since we’re squarely in the middle of tourist season? Are you willing to take your time when your friends are already asleep at camp?

I certainly think a Tesla would be possible for a few days there, assuming you aren’t off roading. It might be pretty annoying for the overall trip though.

To get from the bay area to the creek takes about 2 hours of charging over the 16ish hour drive so not too bad. Usually we do a week + both weekends with a rest day in the middle so we are only in the creek for 3-4 days at a time anyway. I haven't seen lines at the supercharger the last time I was there and they just opened another v3 (faster) station. Not super concerned about availability of superchargers especially at night, mostly just concerned about 3rd party chargers because they are less reliable. 

Honeslty I love my Tesla for road trips more than my old promaster. Great lane keep and cruise control (autopilot), cheaper to run, quieter and being able to keep heat/AC on all night when sleeping is amazing.

Stefanos Apostlewrote:

Can we start assigning T grades to climbs? We can make it like the Brit E grades (since apparently we allow them on MP too...), this new grade will consist of 2 parts; (1) difficulty associated with the charging grid, and (2) how scary it is to drive a tesla in that area. I think this will be a good way to provide inclusiveness and allow out EV brethren to extend their good will further than the gym-chargers will allow them

Haha that is great, I'll hope to FTA some climbs. (First Tesla Approach). 

Also Phylp Phylp, good call on the RV sites, usually I have always just showered at the lazy lizard but might check out some of the Monticello places! 

that guy named sebwrote:

Wtf is wrong with Americans. Just let the man drive his tesla, why do people get to have $100,000+ sprinter conversions or a giant f150 but it's not okay to have a reasonably priced electric car. Atleast try and be helpful. 

Piss off wanka'. Did I say it right?

WTF is wrong with the Brits? Why do they think gritstone climbing is cool? Why did those 2 crack boys train exclusively in their basement then come over to the US for climbing? 

Have you been to Indian Creek??