Judge My Overcomplicated PAS/Extension

Short Fall Seanwrote:

Lol, I guess I should have asked am I the last person on earth who doesn't generally use a third hand when rappelling?! (Although when I do I can't say I experience a problem with jamming.)

Safety police incoming…

Daniel Cowanwrote:

I have a dedicated PAS that never leaves my harness. it has its own locker. the main reason I wouldn't mess around to try to "improve" my setup is that I will never be in a situation where I don't have that to use to clip into anything in an emergency.

it is simple, bright orange, and single purpose. I use it to connect to the wall if I need to clean an anchor, etc.

Note: I only sport climb so don't take this for trad advice. I may be a dad but I ain't a trad dad. haven't earned that distinction.

Hahaha. I may not be a Dad, but I'm pretty heavy into Trad! With our powers combined....

Sounds Like I need to bite the bullet and get a connect. I've also seen Aid climbers use the rope-lock portion but replace the rope with 6-7mm to make it less bulky, Thats intriguing..

Short Fall Seanwrote:

Am I the last person on earth who doesn't extend rappels? I still don't see the point.

I too have never extended a rappel or used a third hand in a recreational climbing environment.  It never seemed that hard to hold onto the brake. 
hell, I don’t remember the last time I didnt* simul rap or just use a gri gri on a biner block.

On topic- 

Just use a sling and some other back up. Already have em up there anyway

According to the AAC almost 20% of rappelling accidents are due to inadequate rappel backup. No one plans to let go of the rope and yet it's one of the major causes of accidents. 

Using a grigri is one alternative to not need a third hand. Another if you desire double rope rappels is to use an assisted breaking double strand device like the Smart Alpine or Gigajul. 

https://aac-publications.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/anam/2012/PDF/ANAM_2012_10_2_002.pdf

If using an ATC to rappel then extending and using a third hand is an extremely good idea. Lots of solutions to avoid this and still be safe, but if not implementing any of those then the third hand being standard rappelling procedure for the masses makes a lot of sense. 

This was a game changer for rapping with a dyneema sling as a tether.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/double-loop-bowline-for-a-rappel-tether

I use that 6mm Edelrid Aramid sling now though and even overhand knots in it come out very easily.

K Lwrote:

This was a game changer for rapping with a dyneema sling as a tether.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/double-loop-bowline-for-a-rappel-tether

I use that 6mm Edelrid Aramid sling now though and even overhand knots in it come out very easily.

How have I not seen this!? Thats brilliant... looks like I've got some more fiddling to do.

I DO like the looks of the Edelrid slings, but I've already bought 3 different slings for this 'project' at this point. I get obsessive in all the wrong ways.

Thanks for sharing!

Cut up your PAS into little itty-bitty pieces and you won't have the overcomplication problem.

David Whisewrote:

In response to Ben V. So far I have tied this on the ground before climbing so it’s all ready when I need it. I certainly don’t want to be faffing around with it on rock. I took my sister out last fall for her first real rock, the idea being if we both had the same colorful PAS she could quickly identify anchor points and rap setup, and feel confident. But I completely accept that less is more In most cases.

I’m really enjoying reading all the different strategies! Thanks for everyone’s input!

That doesn't sound like a bad idea, especially with someone newer. 

If I were you I would experiment with making a rappel extinction/ way to clip into the anchor quickly and with stuff you are already climbing with. Saves weight, space, bulk, etc. The minor time cost for making a simple rappel extension (tying a butterfly knot in a a 120 sling) outweighs having something on your harness that isn't also useful on the way up. I have a 120cm sling that lives in my rescue kit that I use to extend my rappel but will frequently use to extend pieces, make anchors, etc. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

According to the AAC almost 20% of rappelling accidents are due to inadequate rappel backup. No one plans to let go of the rope and yet it's one of the major causes of accidents. 

Using a grigri is one alternative to not need a third hand. Another if you desire double rope rappels is to use an assisted breaking double strand device like the Smart Alpine or Gigajul. 

https://aac-publications.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/anam/2012/PDF/ANAM_2012_10_2_002.pdf

If using an ATC to rappel then extending and using a third hand is an extremely good idea. Lots of solutions to avoid this and still be safe, but if not implementing any of those then the third hand being standard rappelling procedure for the masses makes a lot of sense. 

I'm not saying it's not a good idea, it's just never felt necessary.  Plenty of other simpler ways to mitigate the danger for my comfort level.  The biggest cause of accidents in that report can be prevented by securing the tails, which is easier than a 3rd hand, and yet it's still gonna happen every year.  

almostradwrote:

I'm not saying it's not a good idea, it's just never felt necessary.  Plenty of other simpler ways to mitigate the danger for my comfort level.  The biggest cause of accidents in that report can be prevented by securing the tails, which is easier than a 3rd hand, and yet it's still gonna happen every year.  

Can you clarify what you mean by securing the tails?

Tie knots, clip the tails to you, etc.  Close the system.

almostradwrote:

Tie knots, clip the tails to you, etc.  Close the system.

Capiche. That is indeed the largest category in the report, and one of the easiest types of accidents to avoid also. 

OK, after seeing comments about extending rap devices for years now, I finally decided to ask why.  I never extend my rap device.  Maybe, as a not very tall woman, the mechanics are different for me, but I have zero problem with visability, my brake hand is already in a completely natural, comfortable position, and I never have used an autoblock for descending (although I now use a Gigajul to rap, in the semi-auto brake position when rapping things steep than slab).  So from my perspective, any extension is overcomplicated.

And as to PAS, my contribution to that thread was my opinion that a PAS was the most useless piece of gear I ever bought. In practice, I didn't find it to add any value.  

But then, I never would use a cordelette either and I know people who swear by them (not any of my partners), so I don't make a habit of judging other people's preferences.

Just get a Petzl adjust they work incredibly well once you swap out the normal cord for 7mm or some super thin half.