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Judge My Overcomplicated PAS/Extension
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As I've been getting back into climbing over the last year, I've had an odd obsession with coming up with a "Perfect" PAS and rap extension. Originally inspired by this Alpine Savy Post, I've redesigned my system with 3 different materials. I'll start by saying I am very aware how divisive PAS can be in general, and I know I am overcomplicating something that doesn't need to be. Consider this an academic exercise if it helps. Of these 3, which would be your personal ideal? Why or why not? Any other thoughts, concerns, recommendations?
 Left to right: V1: BlueIce Dyneema Sling 120CM - Minimal on harness, touch short for anything other than cleaning single pitch. |
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You asked for judgement and my judgement shall be given. You are very bored and your partner hates how you set up at anchors if you are rapping first. Too much clutter. my two cents after having done a dedicated PAS (not just a sling, but a made for purpose thing), stopped the pas for a few years, then readopted for certain scenarios. No raps, no PAS or sling. If I’m doing a couple raps, the 120 or 2x 60 slings. Lots of raps, I bring the dedicated PAS for comfort and back up by clipping a draw between bolts. My go to PAS is the BD Link Personal Anchor System, but any marketed PAS works. If the raps are on good ledges, there are usually a couple loops extra to bridge between bolts so I only have one umbilical and keep the anchor cleaner while remaining backed up. For a 120, I girth the hard points, clip a locker to the free end, and clip that to my belay loop, then tie a bight for your rappel device. Then you have one umbilical cord and not two tying up your anchor. |
John Clarkwrote: Your judgement is accurate and just! I think my partners are still new enough not to know how obnoxious I'm being, but sounds like there would be a reckoning if I found a veteran partner. |
David Whisewrote: I have benefitted from a plethora of opinions. I dropped the PAS originally after my buddy showed me clove hitching and back up with a sling and the 120 “pas” for rapping, then another friend showed me clove and back up with draw between bolts, etc etc until now where I have a good selection of options for different kinds of climbs, anchors, and rap situations. My favorite climbs are bolted anchors with a walkoff, slap a clove, connect with draw (sometimes), pull up rope, clip grigri to non cloved bolt, go. |
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To me, the only time a PAS makes sense is for rapping, particularly multi-pitch rappels. For clipping into anchors while climbing, cloving into the rope is faster and simpler. For my rap PAS, I use some 6 mil cord loop, tied into a Purcell Prussik, girth hitched into my harness. During the climb, this 6 mil cord can be used as a mini-cordalette for building anchors, slinging horns, etc. Takes about 1 minute to configure it as a Purcell Prussik when I'm ready to rap down. Multi-use, simple, effective. |
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Just popped in to see when the first person suggests "just using the rope". |
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A simpler method that uses what you already would carry: Extend your rappel with a 120cm sling like shown in the alpine savvy article, be sure to tie a butterfly for ease of untying. Backup with friction hitch. If you're worried about the bolts connect them with an Alpine draw and/or back it up with something. Have the last person remove the draw when they have weighted the entire anchor for rappel and you've deemed it OK. If you're worried about any other type of tat/fixed anchor, back it up with a piece, replace any cord you need to, and have the last person take out the backup (or leave it if it needs!) You yourself said the system you are rigging is overcomplcated, that being said my vote would be V1 of these options because it's the least bulky, uses the least materials, and could be re-used to make an anchor or extend a piece on the way up. Are you rigging this up each time you are starting a series of rappels or does this sit idle on your harness as you ascend as well? I would worry if this takes a while to make at the top of a climb if I was tired or if getting down fast was important. |
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All good advice! So far while I use the PAS for my initial anchor, I have been backing it up with a clove in the rope to get used to rope only eventually. We’ll be in red rock canyon next week where there are many 1-2 pitch walk offs, maybe I’ll try Mr. Clark’s method for those. My general goals are multi pitch trad, which is where my heads been when I’ve tied these up. It is absolutely excessive for single pitch, I’ll agree there. I’m happy to see someone using 6mm, I had it in my head that 6mm nylon wasn’t bomber enough (9kn or even half that is still WAY more than my 150lbs could generate). The Purcell comment corrected my assumption. Might try a Purcell with the tech cord, but it’s quite stiff. In response to Ben V. So far I have tied this on the ground before climbing so it’s all ready when I need it. I certainly don’t want to be faffing around with it on rock. I took my sister out last fall for her first real rock, the idea being if we both had the same colorful PAS she could quickly identify anchor points and rap setup, and feel confident. But I completely accept that less is more In most cases. I’m really enjoying reading all the different strategies! Thanks for everyone’s input! |
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All sage advice here. David, as a somewhat recent newb to all this as well, I started with the same ideas you have. I used a PAS, then moved to a bunch of homemade contraptions. I even have the pink dynaloop, and while I love the neon (it really pops against the ice!), it was just so bulky and the wrong size that it now sits dormant. I used to really want direct connections to both bolts until I realized, like everyone else, and like the path you're on, that you only need one direct connection to either the masterpoint or a bolt. It's too much faff and cluster otherwise. I will always back myself up to the other bolt, but this is usually with a quick draw or the rope itself as John Clark said. On bolted multi raps I learned to just send a quad down with the first person and then we have a quad for every anchor. Same as on the way up for secure and equalized anchors. I generally use a 120cm sling and I like to basket hitch it like you're V1. I will make the long side longer and the short side shorter though to allow for a bit farther reach. I recently got a Petzl Connect and while it's relatively single use, the ease for lengthening and shortening and readjusting at the anchor has been lovely. Granted, this has all been on ice where it can take 30+ minutes for the pitch and you need to be doing squats and switching positions to not go numb on less than stellar stances. I will try it on rock though and see if it's overkill since you tend to move faster. And for a bonus, I do carry the Tendon 120 dynamic sling. It's much more compact than the Beal dynaloop. |
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I DO like the look of the petzl connect stuff. I was ironically trying to save money but have now spent almost triple on my nonsense! I will absolutely be using this trip to get comfortable with the multi use / less is more strategies. On the other hand… this tendon cord is new to me… might have to do a V4 just to complete the collection :D |
David Whisewrote: Lots of high level climbers, guides, and instafluencers are using the petzl connect. for sure, it is extra to a cloved rope. but maybe there is really something to it. I have only clove hitched once this ice season, so..... Good to use a clove hitch w some regularity just to keep the practice fresh and easy. sometimes its the right way even w a PAS pre-installed. Rope anchors can be your friend. I call the tendon cord my circus cord. My partners always know which one I mean. So with inexperienced partners it still offers that 'obvious visual check.' Plus its actually useful for climbing as well. Bigger than dyneema slings, but smaller package than the Beal dynaloop. https://www.mytendon.com/en/mastercord-7-8-red-yellow/p-496/ |
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I also have basically all the different options and (1) use the pink Beal Dynaloop for anchoring at the top of a sketchy stance to set up topropes on bolts, (2) got the Petzl Dual Connect Adjust for long series of rappels after multi-pitch, but (3) generally just use the girth-hitched 120cm Dyneema - paying attention to avoid shock loading - for clipping in and extending rappel. The Petzl Dual Connect holds too tightly to carabiners making them hard to move around. Oh, and I haven't touched my actual PAS in seven years. |
David Whisewrote: Just use a Purcell Prusik: https://www.animatedknots.com/purcell-prusik-loop-knot |
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120cm nylon sling with a few overhand knots tied in it is my go to now. Girth hitch to hard points, tie an overhand lower down to act as your shelf for a rappell extension, then tie another overhand up higher near the end to act as a secondary clip in point if you need to be closer up to the anchor than the end of the sling allows. This method takes up a lot less material which allows you a longer reach with the sling but also still gives you two clip in points which you can adjust by just sliding the overhand knot up or down. |
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Am I the last person on earth who doesn't extend rappels? I still don't see the point. |
Short Fall Seanwrote: Separation between your third hand and the atc to avoid jamming. I also find it nicer somehow that I can’t put my finger on. |
John Clarkwrote: Lol, I guess I should have asked am I the last person on earth who doesn't generally use a third hand when rappelling?! (Although when I do I can't say I experience a problem with jamming.) |
Short Fall Seanwrote: When I cut my teeth outdoors about 12 years back, I was only taught direct with the third-hand off the leg loop. Since coming back I've picked up the extension and don't think I would go back unless in an emergency. However, a lot of this was based on climbing with a completely new follower, so it was handy to have purpose built Rap and Anchor loops to keep everything super obvious. Having everything way out in front also just makes buddy checks more straight forward, especially for novices like myself and current crew. IMO the extension allows much easier control of the rope, and allows the third hand to be on the belay loop without getting tied up with the rap itself. Many newer harness do not have double back leg loops, which makes me nervous even as a "Backup". Supposedly extensions also make it easier to switch a tuber for ascending short distances in a pinch, space to add friction hitches etc. However, I don't actually have the experience so I won't make that a selling point. Obviously there is nothing 'wrong' with either method, ultimately it seems like it comes down to preference. Edit: You might be one of very few to not use a backup though haha. Newer climbers are taught third hand as SOP these days, especially with a tube device. Personally, it's the only way to fly, takes me a minute to rig and will stop me dead if I take a rock to the noggin. |
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If all you need to do is connect to an anchor and extend a rappel... all will work... |
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Big fan of the petzl connect. There are so many conveniences outside of just a tether to anchor or rappel extension. |
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I have a dedicated PAS that never leaves my harness. it has its own locker. the main reason I wouldn't mess around to try to "improve" my setup is that I will never be in a situation where I don't have that to use to clip into anything in an emergency. it is simple, bright orange, and single purpose. I use it to connect to the wall if I need to clean an anchor, etc. Note: I only sport climb so don't take this for trad advice. I may be a dad but I ain't a trad dad. haven't earned that distinction. |
