Escaping Belay and Pick-off rescue.

How many of you rock climbers know how to do it? (Rope access folk and guides feel free to chime in but expect this to be in most of y'alls tool box for obvious reasons)

Does it give any peace of mind knowing a partner can?

I find my peace of mind goes way up when I have a partner that knows how to, even though I hope neither I nor my partner ever needs it.
Personally I set different objectives, or take different risks, based upon my partners ability to help if shit hits the fan.

AMGA SPI:
Belay takeover, ascending w/ grigri & friction hitch, pick off... is standard instruction. Escaping belay isn't specifically covered, but you do so much munter mule overhand stuff with belayed rappels that it shouldn't be a stretch to do a PMMO to a tree or something for ground escape, or easier for top belayed escape... when your doing it off an anchor... not the convoluted redirected belay way.

I took a series of self rescue classes at a gym with Tico an IFMGA guide years ago and it was immensely helpful for peace of mind as well as being way more than prepared for SPI when I decided to get that.

A fun day can be had with a partner just practicing self-rescue.  Colder weather or wet rock provides the perfect setting to forego climbing and just practice stuff.  Pick-off, tandem rappel, escape belay, hauling systems, and releasing/lowering from guide mode.  All that work would keep you warm and probably end with some peace of mind.  Although, I rarely consider my partner's self-rescue knowledge.  Perhaps I'm overconfident in my own ability to stay conscious and manage situations.

Mr Rogerswrote:

How many of you rock climbers know how to do it? (Rope access folk and guides feel free to chime in but expect this to be in most of y'alls tool box for obvious reasons)

Does it give any peace of mind knowing a partner can?

I find my peace of mind goes way up when I have a partner that knows how to, even though I hope neither I nor my partner ever needs it.
Personally I set different objectives, or take different risks, based upon my partners ability to help if shit hits the fan.

How many people can regurgitate specific moves in controlled situations and then completely freeze up when everything isn’t exactly as it was during “training”?

Prevention is the cure, don’t let “shit” interface with the fan.

Tradibanwrote:

don’t let “shit” interface with the fan.

That should be on a t-shirt.

The pick off is a great skill where as escaping the belay in single pitch terrain has limited application. 

It would be a rare instance that you would rather leave someone hanging or on a ledge (even if unconscious or with a suspected spinal injury) than to lower them down or perform a pick off. You'd have to weigh a lot of concerns to choose leave someone hanging to run and get help turning what might be a 10 minute rescue into a several hour one, suspension trauma, especially for someone who is unconscious is a real concern.

Has anyone in single pitch terrain actually escaped the belay to be able to go run and call for help?

DrRockso RRGwrote:

The pick off is a great skill where as escaping the belay in single pitch terrain has limited application. 

It would be a rare instance that you would rather leave someone hanging or on a ledge (even if unconscious or with a suspected spinal injury) than to lower them down or perform a pick off. You'd have to weigh a lot of concerns to choose leave someone hanging to run and get help turning what might be a 10 minute rescue into a several hour one, suspension trauma, especially for someone who is unconscious is a real concern.

Has anyone in single pitch terrain actually escaped the belay to be able to go run and call for help?

I use the belay transfer every once in awhile if someone is hang dogging a route and we (the belayers) want to make a swap. Realize this can be done by going in-direct to a bolt, but a load transfer without the hang-dogger in question even knowing is pretty fun to put into practice anyways.

Skills I’ve actually had to employ when shit hits the proverbial fan are self rescue (i.e. ascending the rope, MMOs, and lowering from guide mode). Not enough people getting into trad/multi pitch know what it’s like to fall as a follower into open space and have to ascend a rope with improvised tools. Huge PITA.  

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

AMGA SPI:
Belay takeover, ascending w/ grigri & friction hitch, pick off... is standard instruction. Escaping belay isn't specifically covered, but you do so much munter mule overhand stuff with belayed rappels that it shouldn't be a stretch to do a PMMO to a tree or something for ground escape, or easier for top belayed escape... when your doing it off an anchor... not the convoluted redirected belay way.

what AMGA teaches in the SPI is not technically a pickoff. 

pickoff implies removing a climber from their original rope system and put them on another completely independent system (usually the rescuers but not always).

curt86irocwrote:

what AMGA teaches in the SPI is not technically a pickoff. 

pickoff implies removing a climber from their original rope system and put them on another completely independent system (usually the rescuers but not always).

AMGA and American Alpine Institute have both been around longer than you and they say it's a pickoff.  But, I'm open minded enough to accept that in a SAR forum, there would be a different understanding of the term.  Tomato, Tomato.  

Tradibanwrote:

How many people can regurgitate specific moves in controlled situations and then completely freeze up when everything isn’t exactly as it was during “training”?

Prevention is the cure, don’t let “shit” interface with the fan.

So with this hot take, we shouldn't be learning first aid either as the scenario isnt what was trained? Sounds ridiculous right?

A dull knife has more purpose than no knife.

Todd Jenkinswrote:

A fun day can be had with a partner just practicing self-rescue.  Colder weather or wet rock provides the perfect setting to forego climbing and just practice stuff.  Pick-off, tandem rappel, escape belay, hauling systems, and releasing/lowering from guide mode.  All that work would keep you warm and probably end with some peace of mind.  Although, I rarely consider my partner's self-rescue knowledge.  Perhaps I'm overconfident in my own ability to stay conscious and manage situations.

Spot on Todd.

And to the consideration of you partners skills, I really only think if it when doing multipich in "out there" places.
Hitting lovers leap is different set of considerations than some RBD in Seki Kings.

How many partners even know how to tie/use a Munter or friction hitch

Todd Jenkinswrote:

AMGA and American Alpine Institute have both been around longer than you and they say it's a pickoff.  But, I'm open minded enough to accept that in a SAR forum, there would be a different understanding of the term.  Tomato, Tomato.  

not just SAR, but every other professional rope/rigging organization in the world (SPRAT, IRATA etc.). AMGA and AAI just don't know what else to call the "partner rescue" test they give you, so they use the term "pick off" colloquially. like you said, it doesn't really matter...

Mr Rogerswrote:

So with this hot take, we shouldn't be learning first aid either as the scenario isnt what was trained? Sounds ridiculous right?

A dull knife has more purpose than no knife.

I’m saying certifications mean nothing so don’t take your partners word for it, test them.

In addition, even those who can regurgitate the skills on the spot can’t function in a stressful situation, thus you most also assess their “street smarts” so to speak.

I have done a course and understand how to do it. In practise, rescuing an unconsious fallen leder on a traverse with more than half the rope out took over 2 hours. So they would be dead by then...

Just a little off topic, but if I had a dime for every struggle/shouting match I've seen at Seneca Rocks happen because the follower/ first rappeler didn't know how to ascend a rope, I'd have about $2.10. In a perfect world this skill would be as common place in climbing as the figure 8, and a great first step into learning belay escapes, pick offs, transitioning to counter balance rappels, hauling, lowering... the works.

Kyle Millswrote:

Just a little off topic, but if I had a dime for every struggle/shouting match I've seen at Seneca Rocks happen because the follower/ first rappeler didn't know how to ascend a rope, I'd have about $2.10. In a perfect world this skill would be as common place in climbing as the figure 8, and a great first step into learning belay escapes, pick offs, transitioning to counter balance rappels, hauling, lowering... the works.

It used to be....before sport climbing and gyms. 

I'm not discounting those two as I fully support them, but historically....

Tradibanwrote:

I’m saying certifications mean nothing so don’t take your partners word for it, test them.

In addition, even those who can regurgitate the skills on the spot can’t function in a stressful situation, thus you most also assess their “street smarts” so to speak.

If you can't trust your partner to do a simple thing like a simul-rap? What makes anyone think they can pull this off without killing both of you. 

Todd Jenkinswrote:

A fun day can be had with a partner just practicing self-rescue.  Colder weather or wet rock provides the perfect setting to forego climbing and just practice stuff.  Pick-off, tandem rappel, escape belay, hauling systems, and releasing/lowering from guide mode.  All that work would keep you warm and probably end with some peace of mind.  Although, I rarely consider my partner's self-rescue knowledge.  Perhaps I'm overconfident in my own ability to stay conscious and manage situations.

My main partner and I do a systems practice/ refresher day each spring. It's usually still cold, less than ideal conditions, so we find a sunny spot and go through a bunch of skills that we hope we never have to use, but like to have in the toolbox.