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Strange rumblings in EPC

Jan Waldron · · El Carmen, NL, MX · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 15
Randy Zzyzxwrote:

The conversation I had with my source was specific to Hidalgo and did not include a "nearby small town." I'd also add that "raising money to build a school" is not the same as actually building a school.

I teach English at the school that was built by El Buho. The school is about 20 minutes from Hidalgo  We opened three years ago, have 45 students. You can come see it next time you're in town. Stop by El Buho and ask for my contact info. I'm not there every day since I'm teaching, but I'll give you a tour and tell you the story behind the school. 

Frank Madden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2015 · Points: 15

My name is Frank Madden, and since I was name dropped by the original poster I felt the need to interject. I have read through this mountain project thread a few times now and have become very saddened by what has taken place here. I am a strong believer that people should be able to voice their opinion, but feel that the spread of very minimally informed, and unnuanced information on the internet is extremely detrimental to all involved.

I can't speak unbiased about any of this. I have years long friendships with many of the local family businesses. Including Mario and his family as well as the staff and organizers of El Buho. They have all been incredibly kind and loving to me over the years. My bias is real. They are family. I love them. But I want to step back from that bias, if I can. 

El Buho doesn't hire locals because it is not a for profit business. It is entirely 100% volunteer based in order for the proceeds to go to having helped build a middle school a few towns over (a handful of locals have volunteered there). I have personally spent days there building the school. I helped mix cement, built walls and and seen the school grown from nothing. The money now is being used to continue the growth of the school (paying for educators and expansion renovations). The school is real. Have you had a conversation with Andrew, the original founder of the coffee shop? Have you had a conversation with Shaefer or Jan? They are more involved with the local communities of multiple towns than you are, might you want to inform yourself with their knowledge?

Mario is born and raised in Hidalgo, a lot of his family live there as well. Mario being an older resident of the town means he has many friendships with many people, but like all of us in our own small towns or big cities, he may not be friends with everyone. I am a foreigner and no matter how much I may try I will never truly be able to fully understand all those relationships. Mario is part of the town council with a focus on tourism and security. He is doing his job. He is trying to increase the tourism industry for the town because that is one of the main draws for the city of Hidalgo. It's a major industry to help the city grow. Did you ever talk with Mario about your concerns? You could do that and learn more about the situation instead of maybe spreading false rumors or biased points of view. Further conversations with more people only helps you gain a better understanding. Do you really feel that a handful of conversations gives a full representative understanding of the situation for everyone to the point that you are willing to harm someone in the process?

Locals and foreigners love El Potrero Chico alike. The reasons for how everyone wants to use the space is gonna be different though. Getting the 25 thousand plus people to agree on what is best is difficult. Some people are incredibly happy about the changes. Some are not. But as foreigners it's not our places to decide. But to knowingly toss shade at multiple people in the community means you don't actually care about local people. You could do real harm to real people with real family businesses that employ local people that raise local families and build the community you speak of. To throw shade at an organization that seeks to help people through education is distasteful.

Russ Walling · · Flaky Foont, WI. Redacted… · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 1,216

Bravo Frank, Jan, and Melissa.  Well said.

Jeremy Bauman · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,107

Melissa, Jan, and Frank said it better than I ever could. The OP states that "no school was built" but as has been mentioned that is simply not true. Having spent a day mixing concrete and painting alongside other climbers and some of the people from the Buho, that point is just laughable. What's better, building a school where there is one in a city that has some economic engines, or building one in a nearby community that doesn't have as much going on and doesn't have a school? 

 

F r i t z · · North Mitten · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 1,185
Jan Waldronwrote:

I teach English at the school that was built by El Buho. The school is about 20 minutes from Hidalgo  We opened three years ago, have 45 students. You can come see it next time you're in town. Stop by El Buho and ask for my contact info. I'm not there every day since I'm teaching, but I'll give you a tour and tell you the story behind the school. 

This was a very kind response. Thanks for what you do, Jan.

Jan Waldron · · El Carmen, NL, MX · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 15
Randy Zzyzxwrote:

Imagination? This post is a report on what I heard directly from local business owners. I was also informed that El Buho was sold by the original "founder" to another American. Why is that relevant? When businesses change hands, the business itself generally changes.

Nope. I've been a part of El Buho since the beginning. It has never been sold to anybody. It is a non profit where management has changed, but it has never been sold to anybody 

Jan Waldron · · El Carmen, NL, MX · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 15
Randy Zzyzxwrote:

Fact: Their employees don't get paid. Not paying employees is a great way to bar locals from working in your business among other things. 

Yep, the volunteers aren't paid. This is so 100% of the profits could go to the school. What you mentioned about keeping locals from being employed is something we have wrestled with and probably will continue to do. I do want to say, however, that over the twelve years of operation we have had several locals volunteer and a few paid as well.

2) El Buho's leadership committed to building a school in Hidalgo and did not.

We never committed to building a school in Hidalgo. Since the very beginning the plan was to help the community at Mission, named after Mission Texas.( A group of people from Mission Texas came in to this squatter community years ago and built roads and infrastructure. ) The community technically is part of Salinas Victoria.

Does your neighborhood or town not have more than one school? No, they only had a school up to sixth grade. 

They happen to find a town named Mission to build a school. How convenient. You can read why it's called Mission above. Also, the school was built alongside of Mexican organizations and at the request of locals to that area, people from El Carmen, Abasolo, Hidalgo, and Mexico City who saw the need and wanted to help the community in a tangible way.

Thank you for your concerns about the local community of Hidalgo and about how our organization could be negatively affecting the people. Any type of help to a community is always complicated and the deeper you go, the more complicated it gets. For today, I will choose to focus on my 45 students who now have a place to study,  and we as a board will continue to wrestle with and make changes to El Buho as we see necessary for the greater good. I know I won't please everybody. I invite anybody to come see what climbers and Mexicans together have done, and I hope more people will be able to do their part in making this world a better place for the kids who have little opportunity. But please, don't spread misinformation. Every cup of coffee is an investment in my students. Some people may choose not to buy coffee, that's their decision, but if it's because of misinformation that is a true shame. 


Saludos and thanks again for your concern.








Jake Jones · · Richmond, VA · Joined Jun 2021 · Points: 170
Randy Zzyzxwrote:

If this post is too long, here's the summary: Established state politician and owner of Rancho El Sendero is attempting to squeeze or eliminate local businesses through power and influence, has effectively banned locals from the park via local ordinances, has local police in pockets, all for the benefit of his business.

All quiet on the Northern entrance. Not a single car blaring rancheros, cumbia, or corridos. Crossing the Potrero Chico park entrance we were stopped by a man in some loose government official clothing and asked if we were registered. There was a hand written sign posted to a traffic cone that read "Registration is Obligatory." This was my fourth time in El Potrero Chico and was caught off-guard by this new process. We were guided into an office where a woman was waiting for us behind a desk. She explained that there is a new policy in place. All climbers must register at the entrance for access. This registration also carried a fee, which was explained was completely donation based, of $220 pesos or USD $12. The fee, she explained, would go towards rescue efforts incase you required them. It was a one time fee that covers the entire season, January through April. Whatever was going on here, I didn't mind much. We have to pay for entrance to parks in the states so why not support the park and its rescue efforts with a small fee and also receive a commemorative bottle opener. They also now maintained clean restrooms stocked with soap, that alone is worth the cash. 

As we made our way towards Mota wall, I noticed there wasn't any local activity whatsoever. It was a Thursday afternoon, maybe it was too early for the locals to gather and surely they'd be around later in the evening. On our walk back, nothing but a lone sprinter van parked in the quiet valley. No locals with music playing through their open doors gathered around offering you a beer or practicing their english in asking you how the climb was. On the walk out, we noticed fresh signs prohibiting drinking, open containers, and loud music. After half a dozen beers with various locals it started to become clear who was behind this new policy, and all signs pointed to Rancho El Sendero. 

Rancho El Sendero, as I came to find out, is owned and operated by a powerful and influential Mexican politician. If you've stayed there you might know him as Mario. Mario Alberto Garza Castillo is the President of the State Electoral Commission in Nuevo Leon and has held this office since 2014. I thought the same thing, why the hell would a politician open what is essentially a glorified hostel for climbers in a tiny town an hour outside of one of Mexico's biggest bustling state capitals? Considering the explosion of popularity of climbing in the recent years, paired with EPCs fairly easy access and developing tourism putting it well on its way to becoming a world class climbing destination, there's hard cash money to be made. Kick out the locals, starve the businesses at the entrance, make it gringo safe and you're set. Now instead of stopping there, you're more likely to hold your thirst and hunger until you get back to Rancho El Sendero, where there's a nice warm bar and kitchen waiting to serve you. That's exactly what's happening. Those businesses at the entrance are no longer selling to locals because they don't show up anymore. Having a beer outside the business? Illegal. If the business is caught having patrons with alcohol a foot outside its doors, they get a warning. Three warnings and according to new government policy, the business is permanently shutdown. One of the businesses already had two warnings. A climber walked out with his beer while a federale passed by. Federale left the climber alone but cited the business. I urged the local businesses to band together and fight to oppose this laughable policy, but they all expressed the same uneasiness and concern. Politicians in Mexico are almost untouchable. They do what they want, own the local police, and answer to no one. 

Oh, and that unsightly, overpriced Hotel Lemuria is also in-partnership with Rancho El Sendero.

All of this is not good for the future of El Potrero Chico. The locals have always been an integral part of the experience, providing the music, food and fiesta that one comes to expect from visiting Mexico. Frank Madden, author of EPC Climbing guidebook, states in his 1st edition, "expect to see a lot of locals in the canyon enjoying their weekends with loud music, good food, and beer." This entire experience for visitors, along with the livelihood of local businesses are in danger if we don't move to protect it. Please do your research when booking accommodations and use your dollar, whether Canadian or USD, wisely. I also heard there are some new places to stay opening up on the Southern entrance, check them out.

And before I wrap this more-than-lengthy post up, I'm not letting El Buho Coffee off the hook. This coffee shop posing as a Christian climber outreach is nothing more than your classic American grift. They do not contribute to the local community whatsoever, but only perpetuate the homogenization that one is trying to escape. Local people can't afford their coffee, and their employees don't get paid. Bring your own coffee and enjoy it without the taint. 

*Quick edit since people are asking more questions about El Buho:

From what I gathered, El Buho is not seen in good light by the community of Hidalgo. When it was first opened by an American Christian leader, they committed to the community to build a school and other contributions, none of which ever happened. One of the complaints by one of my local sources was that they are running an unpermitted business, or at least "operating outside of what they're permitted for while officials look the other way." 

How is this harmful to locals? Outsiders (religious gringos) open a business with religious association, sell a product at a price that the local population cannot afford all while contributing nothing to the local community. Why should climbers or tourists care about this? I suppose it comes down to ethics. Who you give your money to and what businesses you choose to support have short-term and long-term effects on any community. If coffee is your thing, try to source your coffee from a Hidalgo business that's a part of the community, if you can't find one, bring your own.

____

People may have their opinions, but I tried to present the facts of the situation to the best of my ability. 

Also, there is a limit to replying (5 a day) and I've exceeded that limit today.

TLDR:  "Some people told me some shit that I didn't verify and now I want to start a crusade in a US-based rock climbing forum against a foreign government."  LOL  Maybe keep your entitlement and righteous indignation relegated to your own country.  Amazon and Door Dash have made things extremely convenient for most Americans, but I don't think that extends to influencing foreign government policy.  

José Flovin · · AZ · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 453

I can't speak to the "rumblings" of Rancho El Sendero, but I can speak to the Buhó. 

When I went in 2019 I spent all my evenings in the Buhó and was warmly welcomed by the staff there, and it was really the only place I met locals in a meaningful way. It had plenty of schoolchildren testing their english, community members, local climbers, and of course tourists wanting to climb there. As far as the prices are concerned - outsiders come to EPC, spend what they can afford on the coffee and then the money stays in the community enriching the community of Hidalgo. As far as I'm concerned, their mission is successful is and still ongoing despite what ever "rumblings" may occur. The world is full of humanitarian efforts needed and lacking in those willing to do it, and it just so happens that El Buhó are the ones willing to do that. Unfortunately, it draws criticism. Not saying any humanitarian efforts need to be immune to criticism, but the criticisms are just wrong. Grift has a denotation, and that being "small-scale-swindling". It is different than its connotation and how it is used in this case to mean "something I don't like". 

OP, please speak on things that you know about. El Buhó is there to support people like you, people unlike you, and to preserve a kindred relationship with locals. If you don't like it, you don't have to go and get delicious coffee. 

Christian Hesch · · Arroyo Grande, CA · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 55

To summarize, we have an anonymous OP who's intent on slagging a local charity org under the guise of extra info on a piece about supposed/perceived corruption by local gov't officials. We have 6 people using their real names, rebutting said allegations against the charity.  OP, considering the consistency of the stories told by people willing to put their real names up (including one of the founders, knowing she could get super slagged on here), I'm honestly less inclined to believe anything you post, even if some of it might actually be rooted in some kernel of truth. You try to make points and they seem very difficult to support. Maybe next time you'd like to try a more cogent argument and buttress your story with supportable facts. Just a suggestion. For now, I think I'll take the words of numerous real people over an anonymous (potential) troll.

Randy Zzyzxwrote:

You want facts? Here are a couple.

Fact: Their employees don't get paid. Not paying employees is a great way to bar locals from working in your business among other things. 

Curious where the line is drawn here? Do you bar Doctors without Borders from the area, because they might take good business away from the local surgeon? Not perfect apples to apples but the greater point stands, I'm genuinely curious. How about teachers who spend 6-12mos teaching for free, should we bar them because supposedly someone local could get paid to do the same job? Paid by who, the gov't? If there's limitless gov't money, why is this charity raising money for a school if, by extrapolating your logic, there's plenty of gov't money for the school, since it's not necessary to do what they claim to be doing (and seems there's ample evidence of what they're claiming).

 I don't have an agenda, but you better believe these people do.

Yes, they certainly do. Seems as though it's front and center of their website, they claim to be a charity focused on providing for educational opportunities for local children, and they're not shy about stating their religious beliefs - which, btw, are pretty similar to the locals - surprising that you wouldn't realize that. Since my family origin is just a few hours from there, maybe it's natural that I would realize that quicker than you apparently have. Don't like education for kids? Don't purchase coffee from them. Don't like people of particular faiths? Don't patronize muslim/catholic/mormon/etc owned businesses. Sorry buddy but your above claim seems very disingenuous, to say the least.

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