Strange rumblings in EPC
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Randy Zzyzxwrote: I teach English at the school that was built by El Buho. The school is about 20 minutes from Hidalgo We opened three years ago, have 45 students. You can come see it next time you're in town. Stop by El Buho and ask for my contact info. I'm not there every day since I'm teaching, but I'll give you a tour and tell you the story behind the school. |
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My name is Frank Madden, and since I was name dropped by the original poster I felt the need to interject. I have read through this mountain project thread a few times now and have become very saddened by what has taken place here. I am a strong believer that people should be able to voice their opinion, but feel that the spread of very minimally informed, and unnuanced information on the internet is extremely detrimental to all involved. I can't speak unbiased about any of this. I have years long friendships with many of the local family businesses. Including Mario and his family as well as the staff and organizers of El Buho. They have all been incredibly kind and loving to me over the years. My bias is real. They are family. I love them. But I want to step back from that bias, if I can. El Buho doesn't hire locals because it is not a for profit business. It is entirely 100% volunteer based in order for the proceeds to go to having helped build a middle school a few towns over (a handful of locals have volunteered there). I have personally spent days there building the school. I helped mix cement, built walls and and seen the school grown from nothing. The money now is being used to continue the growth of the school (paying for educators and expansion renovations). The school is real. Have you had a conversation with Andrew, the original founder of the coffee shop? Have you had a conversation with Shaefer or Jan? They are more involved with the local communities of multiple towns than you are, might you want to inform yourself with their knowledge? Mario is born and raised in Hidalgo, a lot of his family live there as well. Mario being an older resident of the town means he has many friendships with many people, but like all of us in our own small towns or big cities, he may not be friends with everyone. I am a foreigner and no matter how much I may try I will never truly be able to fully understand all those relationships. Mario is part of the town council with a focus on tourism and security. He is doing his job. He is trying to increase the tourism industry for the town because that is one of the main draws for the city of Hidalgo. It's a major industry to help the city grow. Did you ever talk with Mario about your concerns? You could do that and learn more about the situation instead of maybe spreading false rumors or biased points of view. Further conversations with more people only helps you gain a better understanding. Do you really feel that a handful of conversations gives a full representative understanding of the situation for everyone to the point that you are willing to harm someone in the process? Locals and foreigners love El Potrero Chico alike. The reasons for how everyone wants to use the space is gonna be different though. Getting the 25 thousand plus people to agree on what is best is difficult. Some people are incredibly happy about the changes. Some are not. But as foreigners it's not our places to decide. But to knowingly toss shade at multiple people in the community means you don't actually care about local people. You could do real harm to real people with real family businesses that employ local people that raise local families and build the community you speak of. To throw shade at an organization that seeks to help people through education is distasteful. |
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Bravo Frank, Jan, and Melissa. Well said. |
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Melissa, Jan, and Frank said it better than I ever could. The OP states that "no school was built" but as has been mentioned that is simply not true. Having spent a day mixing concrete and painting alongside other climbers and some of the people from the Buho, that point is just laughable. What's better, building a school where there is one in a city that has some economic engines, or building one in a nearby community that doesn't have as much going on and doesn't have a school?
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Jan Waldronwrote: This was a very kind response. Thanks for what you do, Jan. |
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Randy Zzyzxwrote: Nope. I've been a part of El Buho since the beginning. It has never been sold to anybody. It is a non profit where management has changed, but it has never been sold to anybody |
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Randy Zzyzxwrote:
Fact: Their employees don't get paid. Not paying employees is a great way to bar locals from working in your business among other things. Yep, the volunteers aren't paid. This is so 100% of the profits could go to the school. What you mentioned about keeping locals from being employed is something we have wrestled with and probably will continue to do. I do want to say, however, that over the twelve years of operation we have had several locals volunteer and a few paid as well. 2) El Buho's leadership committed to building a school in Hidalgo and did not. We never committed to building a school in Hidalgo. Since the very beginning the plan was to help the community at Mission, named after Mission Texas.( A group of people from Mission Texas came in to this squatter community years ago and built roads and infrastructure. ) The community technically is part of Salinas Victoria. Does your neighborhood or town not have more than one school? No, they only had a school up to sixth grade. They happen to find a town named Mission to build a school. How convenient. You can read why it's called Mission above. Also, the school was built alongside of Mexican organizations and at the request of locals to that area, people from El Carmen, Abasolo, Hidalgo, and Mexico City who saw the need and wanted to help the community in a tangible way. Thank you for your concerns about the local community of Hidalgo and about how our organization could be negatively affecting the people. Any type of help to a community is always complicated and the deeper you go, the more complicated it gets. For today, I will choose to focus on my 45 students who now have a place to study, and we as a board will continue to wrestle with and make changes to El Buho as we see necessary for the greater good. I know I won't please everybody. I invite anybody to come see what climbers and Mexicans together have done, and I hope more people will be able to do their part in making this world a better place for the kids who have little opportunity. But please, don't spread misinformation. Every cup of coffee is an investment in my students. Some people may choose not to buy coffee, that's their decision, but if it's because of misinformation that is a true shame. Saludos and thanks again for your concern. |
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Randy Zzyzxwrote: TLDR: "Some people told me some shit that I didn't verify and now I want to start a crusade in a US-based rock climbing forum against a foreign government." LOL Maybe keep your entitlement and righteous indignation relegated to your own country. Amazon and Door Dash have made things extremely convenient for most Americans, but I don't think that extends to influencing foreign government policy. |
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I can't speak to the "rumblings" of Rancho El Sendero, but I can speak to the Buhó. When I went in 2019 I spent all my evenings in the Buhó and was warmly welcomed by the staff there, and it was really the only place I met locals in a meaningful way. It had plenty of schoolchildren testing their english, community members, local climbers, and of course tourists wanting to climb there. As far as the prices are concerned - outsiders come to EPC, spend what they can afford on the coffee and then the money stays in the community enriching the community of Hidalgo. As far as I'm concerned, their mission is successful is and still ongoing despite what ever "rumblings" may occur. The world is full of humanitarian efforts needed and lacking in those willing to do it, and it just so happens that El Buhó are the ones willing to do that. Unfortunately, it draws criticism. Not saying any humanitarian efforts need to be immune to criticism, but the criticisms are just wrong. Grift has a denotation, and that being "small-scale-swindling". It is different than its connotation and how it is used in this case to mean "something I don't like". OP, please speak on things that you know about. El Buhó is there to support people like you, people unlike you, and to preserve a kindred relationship with locals. If you don't like it, you don't have to go and get delicious coffee. |
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To summarize, we have an anonymous OP who's intent on slagging a local charity org under the guise of extra info on a piece about supposed/perceived corruption by local gov't officials. We have 6 people using their real names, rebutting said allegations against the charity. OP, considering the consistency of the stories told by people willing to put their real names up (including one of the founders, knowing she could get super slagged on here), I'm honestly less inclined to believe anything you post, even if some of it might actually be rooted in some kernel of truth. You try to make points and they seem very difficult to support. Maybe next time you'd like to try a more cogent argument and buttress your story with supportable facts. Just a suggestion. For now, I think I'll take the words of numerous real people over an anonymous (potential) troll. Randy Zzyzxwrote: Curious where the line is drawn here? Do you bar Doctors without Borders from the area, because they might take good business away from the local surgeon? Not perfect apples to apples but the greater point stands, I'm genuinely curious. How about teachers who spend 6-12mos teaching for free, should we bar them because supposedly someone local could get paid to do the same job? Paid by who, the gov't? If there's limitless gov't money, why is this charity raising money for a school if, by extrapolating your logic, there's plenty of gov't money for the school, since it's not necessary to do what they claim to be doing (and seems there's ample evidence of what they're claiming). I don't have an agenda, but you better believe these people do. Yes, they certainly do. Seems as though it's front and center of their website, they claim to be a charity focused on providing for educational opportunities for local children, and they're not shy about stating their religious beliefs - which, btw, are pretty similar to the locals - surprising that you wouldn't realize that. Since my family origin is just a few hours from there, maybe it's natural that I would realize that quicker than you apparently have. Don't like education for kids? Don't purchase coffee from them. Don't like people of particular faiths? Don't patronize muslim/catholic/mormon/etc owned businesses. Sorry buddy but your above claim seems very disingenuous, to say the least. |