Are climbers low impact?

A few years ago, while in St. George, I was talking to a boulderer. The topic of camping at Moe's Valley was brought up. The conversation slowly transitioned to the cliché about how climbers are low impact on outdoor areas. The boulderer did not understand what the big deal was about staying out at Moe's Valley over night. I had an opposing view on the topic and decided to share it with him. 

I mentioned how climbers are the only user group to permanently attach foreign objects in outdoor areas including wilderness areas (bolts). 

We follow sanctioned trails, that often have signs that say "Do not walk off trail" to a point where we in fact walk off the trail and to a climb.

We are the only user group that uses something like chalk and covers natural features with it. If we wrote our name with the chalk it would be graffiti, but as long as we only chalk the holds it is fine I guess?

On multi pitch, we often find slings fixed to old climbing gear, to allow us to rappel down. According to most climbers this is not the same as leaving trash on a mountain.

Campers are encouraged to place tents in existing campsite, but we are cool with throwing down our crash pads next to every boulder we find.

Building trails in most public lands is prohibited, but scrubbing off a rock climb and removing trees, bushes and moss is totally fine.

I love climbing. I have done all things listed above. I am just pointing out that maybe when climbers are saying "We are a low impact group" Consider that we just might be the highest impact group. 

Have you heard of off road motor sports?

that said, we could always be better as climbers

Shaun Johnsonwrote:

A few years ago, while in St. George, I was talking to a boulderer.

 Ever been fishing? I've removed miles of fishing line by now. And have a gigantic lure collection from snorkeling popular zones. LOL. Tacitly going to ignore the broken glass and beer cans everywhere...

I've had this thought myself. I do not think that climbers are low impact. I agree with your points about walking off trail, bolts, chalk, tat, etc. Some climbers are better than others at picking up after themselves and but most of the climbers i have met would also be more likely to pick up other people's trash.

I think that hikers or trail runners are probably more low impact than climbers but then compare us to people who are in motor sports or something like golf. As someone who is a climber but also a car enthusiast and a golfer, climbing is probably my lowest impact hobby. 

Moes is a desecrated shit hole swarmed by out-of-towners all winter. My eyeballs bleed when I go down there and see the level of environment disrespect occurring. 

Trails? nah, not for me.

Bushes/plants/crypto? Fuck em. 

Micro-garbage? Toss it over there. 

Parking? Anywhere, any bush, any spot. Particularly the CO and CA plates......................

John Clarkwrote:

Have you heard of off road motor sports?

that said, we could always be better as climbers

I should have specifically mentioned this is in regards to human powered sports. Of course the ATV, 4 Wheeler, Dirt bike and Side by side crowd is probably the worst crowd for outdoor.

Here in SE Idaho they leave trash everywhere. They burn wood with nails in it and just leaves the pile of rusty nails in the parking lot. They are loud AF and affect the enjoyment of all other user groups. Plus the obvious of them tearing up the surface of the land and scaring off any living creatures.

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

What did the boulderer say when none of your points addressed the topic of staying overnight at Moe’s?

I did address them. Those topis are not climbing specific. Other outdoor groups camp where they are not allowed. Bring 3 dogs per person and shit everywhere. 

Not more than any other outdoor groups, except maybe casual hikers like my parents.

They have to build an entire lift for snow sports/mountain biking lol, I think we're ok

Hordes of people are never low-impact, ever. Just by dint of the bottoms of their feet, and it only gets worse from there.

BTW, "those other people do it too" is utterly irrelevant to the question of the OP.

Yuri Rodeawrote:

Not more than any other outdoor groups, except maybe casual hikers like my parents.

They have to build an entire lift for snow sports/mountain biking lol, I think we're ok

Not to mention things like the Snow groomers, snow makers (millions of gallons of water use each season), etc... Same thing with golf courses - mowers, sprinklers and fertilizer...

overall i think climbing is decently low impact but its not without its faults. heck think about the impact that gear manufacturing has

Lower than staying home and turning off your heating/cooling? Probably not. Lower than ripping your 4-wheeler around Moab? Probably. Who cares? This nit-picking on "impact" is a huge circle-jerk: we have "impact" on the environment by living, but we're not about to start offing ourselves in large numbers in the name of environmentalism. Meanwhile the real things that move the needle need work: urban planning, vehicle regulation, manufacturing regulation, etc.

Climbing-related environmental impact in perspective. 

"low impact" means nothing without a relative comparison or defined criteria...

do we have an impact? sure. is it as large as other recreational user groups? no. can we do better? sure, why not...

If we starting eating our own shit that would help for sure! Throw two edibles into a sanny can and I think it would be empty within a week!

Are climbers low impact on the planet?  It depends.  We have a lower impact than some, higher impact than others.  For example most climbers who deck aren't falling from 1500+ feet, so they are going to have an objectively lower impact than a skydiver jumping from 14k feet who's chute fails to open, but an objectively higher impact than a high diver who splashes down into the water.

I have never even for a minute considered climbing to be a low impact form of recreation. The amount of driving alone is ridiculous.  I’ve never for one minute considered my life on the planet low impact. If I was trying my best I probably wouldn’t be getting on planes to go cross the country or 1/2 way across the world to vacation. The only planetary legacy I will leave is not having kids and multiplying the 8 billion.
but I only have one life to live. I do what I can to make the world a better place and grab as much joy out of the fleeting moments as I can get.

abandon moderation wrote:

Anyone who enjoys the outdoors should care. Vehicle regulation, etc, are a higher "impact" maybe in the sense of overall environmental effect, but it has little effect on whether is looks nice when I'm out in nature. A bunch of pollution in an urban center isn't visible in the backcountry, but a candy bar wrapper is.

For sure, I didn't mean to imply we shouldn't care about being good stewards. But trying to define our chosen sport as "low impact" so we can feel warm fuzzies is pointless. Do the best you can, make good personal choices in the right direction, and do something about the big environmental issues.

Is a well designed climber built trail that gets used by hundreds of climbers, and will be used forever, more impactful to the environment than no defined trail?

No. 

grug gwrote:

Moes is a desecrated shit hole swarmed by out-of-towners all winter. My eyeballs bleed when I go down there and see the level of environment disrespect occurring. 

Trails? nah, not for me.

Bushes/plants/crypto? Fuck em. 

Micro-garbage? Toss it over there. 

Parking? Anywhere, any bush, any spot. Particularly the CO and CA plates......................

Maybe people will stop going to Moes when all the top outs get ripped apart by people climbing on wet sandstone? 

Srsly, it's a thing and I keep seeing videos of people climbing when the sand below the climbs is still wet. 

I know there are people down in St George who are working to ensure access. What a brutal task, with all the developers building stuff as fast as they can, multiple land agencies, state lines, etc. It would be a Herculean task to pull together a comprehensive climbing access plan! 

Wouldn't it be cool if they were like Park City, where every developer has to put in a set amount of bike or other trails for each build.