Polished Rock

As climbing increases in popularity, should we be considered about classic climbs and areas eventually becoming so polished as to become unenjoyable / far more difficult than they were originally? Are some rock types/areas much more prone to this than others? Can rock be unpolished?

Recent climbing in Joe's Valley has me thinking about this as the start to The Angler feels very polished, but popular routes on granite they've felt highly textured.

I think this has happened already, and would certainly continue to happen.

I think limestone is the worst, in terms of getting slippery/polished. Granite is more durable than limestone, so it takes longer to become polished. Sandstone gets ground down (crimps become more rounded), but doesn’t get that glassy slippery polish the way limestone does.

And yes, high-traffic popular routes definitely get loved into death. It’s a natural lifecycle of a climb: first it’s new and somewhat sharp, or crumbly/brittle/Sandy; 

-then comes prime-of-route-life conditions: all (almost all) of the breaky holds have been broken, the crimps no longer feel like razors, pockets aren’t cutting your fingers off, the chalk tells you where to go; 

-then comes some sadness: the chalk has caked on, and really needs to be brushed, the crimps are ground down, maybe a good hold has broken off here and there, the feet are starting to feel insecure…

-and finally, nobody wants to climb the route anymore. Occasionally visitors stumble on it, and then comment on MP how shitty it is, and how they can’t believe anyone has given it 5 stars, or called it a 5.10..,

Super crack in indian creek used to have sharp edges and was thinner years ago before it became the to do route in the desert so yup rock gets polished and changed after years of use and abuse.

I think talking to an archeologist might give us some creative ideas. Apparently there are volcanic tuff crags coated in an Elmer’s glue hybrid to preserve the rock. Much of the texture in crags in Washington is from moss formerly covering the the rock and releasing an acid. Some people will be mad if the rock is glass, some will be mad if you dump sulfuric acid on the holds even if an ideal solution exists we would never agree on it.

Some of the start holds on midnight lightning are more polished than some countertops. 

My local destination area is Castle Hill, New Zealand. If you’re not familiar with the place, it’s characterised by wind and rain sculpted limestone boulders. Although the rock at Castle Hill is very high quality, many classic or otherwise popular problems have become incredibly polished, despite the relatively low traffic compared to overseas destinations.

We’re trying to prevent further damage from occurring in newer areas, such as the amazing Flock Hill, by cleaning all holds on a problem after finishing on it. Simply bring along a hardware store pump action spray bottle (such as those used to apply herbicide), then give the holds a spritz and a scrub with a soft brush (such as a toothbrush, not a climbing brush). It’s not a perfect method, but it’s better than nothing!

Cleaning your shoes and less chalk would help

Lena chitawrote:

I think limestone is the worst, in terms of getting slippery/polished.

This. There's that 10a on Division Wall in American Fork where the crux pebble step now seems slipperier than 11d on Glacier Point Apron

Marc801 Cwrote:

This. There's that 10a on Division Wall in American Fork where the crux pebble step now seems slipperier than 11d on Glacier Point Apron

Uh oh, it sounds like you’re suggesting an upgrade on a popular route for polished holds. You and I both know that’s illegal. That route’s 10a forever unless a hold breaks at which point all bets are off.

Derek Swrote:

As climbing increases in popularity, should we be considered about classic climbs and areas eventually becoming so polished as to become unenjoyable / far more difficult than they were originally? Are some rock types/areas much more prone to this than others? Can rock be unpolished?

Recent climbing in Joe's Valley has me thinking about this as the start to The Angler feels very polished, but popular routes on granite they've felt highly textured.

This has been an issue in the UK since at least the 1950s and probably earlier. Routes become harder and less enjoyable. Some claim polished holds improve technique,  this seems to be making a virtue from a necessity. 

Limestone is the worst - check-out the warm-up at a popular Euro sport crag - but most rock-types eventually polish with enough traffic. Rock with high natural erosion rates due to large external forces (eg sea cliffs) and/or friable rock (eg Fisher towers) and infrequent use may be an exception. 

Clean footwear helps minimise wear.  'Pof' (pine resin) use in Fontainebleau results in a gloss patina on footholds but may stabilise crumbling sandstone. Various procedures for "unpolishing" rock have been tried, including mechanical (sandblasting, chipping a texture with a hammer) and chemical (etching with acid). All are thought to cause more harm than good. 

duncan...wrote:

This has been an issue in the UK since at least the 1950s and probably earlier. Routes become harder and less enjoyable. Some claim polished holds improve technique,  this seems to be making a virtue from a necessity. Limestone is the worst - check-out the warm-up at a popular Euro sport crag - but most rock-types eventual polish with enough traffic. Rock with high natural erosion rates due to large external forces (eg sea cliffs) and/or friable rock (eg Fisher towers) and low rate of polish due to infrequent use may be an exception. 

Clean, soft footwear helps.  'Pof' (pine resin) use in Fontainebleau results in a gloss patina on footholds but may stabilise crumbling sandstone. Various procedures for "unpolishing" rock have been tried, including mechanical (sandblasting, chipping a texture with a hammer) and chemical (etching with acid). All are thought to cause more harm than good. 

Nothing that requires extra effort from climbers en masse will happen.

Learn to live with polished holds gentleman.

I think dirty feet is a huge contributor to this especially with the explosion of the gym to crag pipeline. It’s one of those little subtleties of the sport that many newcomers these days seem never to learn. I see so many people pull on without cleaning their feet/brushing the start footholds clear of the dirt others have tracked there.

Obviously wear is going to happen regardless but not cleaning your feet accelerates the process. 

nowherewrote:

I think dirty feet is a huge contributor to this especially with the explosion of the gym to crag pipeline. It’s one of those little subtleties of the sport that many newcomers these days seem never to learn. I see so many people pull on without cleaning their feet/brushing the start footholds clear of the dirt others have tracked there.

Obviously wear is going to happen regardless but not cleaning your feet accelerates the process. 

Agreed. I find it very confusing to watch someone climb in their mud covered tarantulaces. Or standing in the mud belaying while wearing their tarantulaces. 

No proof, but I'd assume chalk actually protects holds from getting polished.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

No proof, but I'd assume chalk actually protects holds from getting polished.

Fine particles being rubbed all over is literally how you polish things.

Dan Dwrote:

Fine particles being rubbed all over is literally how you polish things.

Your fingers are heavier grit than climbing chalk. The chalk is reducing wear, and I'm guessing you won't try and back up your claim with any real detail. I'd be happy to learn cheap chalk could be used in a tumbler to polish some materials. 

Lena chitawrote:

I think this has happened already, and would certainly continue to happen.

I think limestone is the worst, in terms of getting slippery/polished. Granite is more durable than limestone, so it takes longer to become polished. Sandstone gets ground down (crimps become more rounded), but doesn’t get that glassy slippery polish the way limestone does.

I think it varies much more by mineral content in each type of specific rock. I agree that as a whole the worst limestone is worse than the worse granite or limestone. I recall a video of Ondra slipping/falling on 5.11c multiple times due to the glassy nature of the climb. For example, I have found lots of well traveled granitic rock that is far more “glassy” than limestone and dolomite due to quartz content. Additionally, I feel like the new river gorge nuttall sandstone tends to weather very some limestone and granite areas in the west due to the crazy high percentage of quartz content (the same mineral that typically make granite slick).

-then comes prime-of-route-life conditions: all (almost all) of the breaky holds have been broken, the crimps no longer feel like razors, pockets aren’t cutting your fingers off, the chalk tells you where to go; 

You clearly haven’t experienced the “cigar cutter” on The Example. You might change your mind on this.

-and finally, nobody wants to climb the route anymore. Occasionally visitors stumble on it, and then comment on MP how shitty it is, and how they can’t believe anyone has given it 5 stars, or called it a 5.10..,

I wish that were a thing. Far more likely is the beautiful white limestone or sandstone climbs turns to black due to rubber marks and, in turn, become sandbagged into oblivion 

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

That's not what happens when chalk is caked on a hold, unless you mean the chalk polishes the other layer of chalk until it falls off, then cool.

Chalk undoubtedly plays a major factor in polishing holds. Even if just creating a base layer on the hold. Surely as someone who climbs at the RRG, like yourself, would realize this.

Just gotta climb harder.

Go Back to Super Topowrote:

Chalk undoubtedly plays a major factor in polishing holds. Even if just creating a base layer on the hold. Surely as someone who climbs at the RRG, like yourself, would realize this.

I know that everytime I take the time to brush all the holds, the rock feels like real rock, and not polished, chalk caked rock. Every time. There are certain crags with smooth stone, like Left Flank and Military. Climbers didn't polish those climbs, the rock on those walls are just low friction. Brush at 95% of the crags in the Red and you will find a well protected piece of rock that is fun to climb on and is still full of friction.

I'd argue rubber is a more difficult thing to get out with a brush, and likely the cause of most polish. I'd need some science to back up the claim that climbers chalk could contribute to the damage more than it protects the surfaces it's coating.

My observation is that footholds get polished faster/worse than handholds, so it might stand to reason that grit on shoes is the biggest culprit.