Passed by a soloing couple on a climb.... who was in the wrong?

Zach  nails it.

I'm somewhat surprised, after skimming through this thread, of no one having mentioned that MAYBE soloing a busy beginner's route on a weekend isn't the best idea.

Fwiw, I personally think that of course since soloist are in greater danger, midroute possibly isn't the best place to start various arguments about climbing ethics. That being said, it should still be considered that apparently not 100% solid soloist above you ARE a danger to yourself. Asking that they find a good rest and wait to pass at anchor seems reasonable if that is an option. I fully agree that as much as possible, you don't want to freak them out of their presumably focused mindset. However, soloing a busy route on a day where parties are very likely to be encountered is a choice, so presumably before starting they would know that encounters are likely, and may or not unfold 100% their preferred way.

On a lighter note:

Why is this even a question?  Yes, if you're not solid soloing, and you hold up or otherwise jeopardize a roped party, then you're wrong.  You can talk about nuance and shades of gray or whatever the fuck else, but it doesn't negate this:

"His girlfriend whoever, sat at the crux move for 4-5 minutes. Hesitate and second guessing the move, she was about 8-10 feet about my partner and right in line if she fell. Clearly not having a fun time"  Five pages of picking ass hairs out of a turd changes nothing.  These people clearly made poor decisions, and probably know that.  

Also, a bit of throat clearing- I understand shit happens.  I’m not anti-soloing.  Do your thing, but if it’s a poor decision, it should be one that only has the potential to injure or kill the person that made that decision.  That’s the gist of my comment but my original comment was overboard, so it was edited.

x15x15wrote:

But, just the fact that they are climbing means they enjoy a very risky and deadly hobby.  So, they are already at risk of dying. So be it...

Weird rational.

You're climbing == you're doing something risky, so me making it riskier in ways you hadn't signed up for/planned is OK. Mind if I cut that rope? No? I thought so.

Nic Gravleywrote:

They weren’t in the wrong. Passing people when soloing is the norm. 

In the middle of a pitch with 3 people climbing on it?

Mike Kwrote:

In the middle of a pitch with 3 people climbing on it?

Yes.

I will pass people anytime anywhere, but I am also handing them beers.

Tradibanwrote:

Yes.

I will pass people anytime anywhere, but I am also handing them beers.

Holy shit…have you ever handed out beers on the summit of Tahquitz??? My first time topping out was my first multipitch, almost three years ago. I was tired, scared, sweating and exhausted. Out of nowhere a smiling man in sunglasses wordlessly walked over and handed my partner and I canned beer. It was a hot day, and that beer was ICE COLD. I let out a surprised “thank you” and he simply nodded then disappeared from behind the rocks. No rope, no harness, and I was stunned. I never saw him again, not on the friction descent nor on the hike back down to the parking area.

One of the bigger mysteries in my boring life.

Jeezus. So much weird judgy shit on this thread. 

I love to solo; many reasons, mostly because I don't always have a partner. But mostly because sometimes I want to do what I love alone and I'm comfortable doing so. 

I solo'd past a lot of people this summer. Every time was a pleasant interaction. Great conversations, exchanged some quick stories and fist-bumps. Shared a lot of stoke. To the OP, I'm sorry you had a less pleasant interaction. But ain't that life? There's a lot of climbers these days, not all of them are gonna to be cool or harbor good etiquette. There's nothing wrong with getting passed by somebody soloing, but from your report these two do sound like total wankers. There's no strict protocol here, it's very case dependent. But it usually comes down to being a good human and respecting each other... crazy, I know. 

Those who are snarking about soloing being pure ego, I find this extremely ignorant and a gross generalization.  As for the argument that one shouldn't solo on popular trade routes, please. One of the great things about being comfortable with soloing the popular moderate routes is that you get to do them on a whim. Partner bailed? Fuk it, I can still huck a lap on Cathedral! 

Jake Joneswrote:

Why is this even a question?  Yes, if you're not solid soloing, and you hold up or otherwise jeopardize a roped party, then you're wrong.  You can talk about nuance and shades of gray or whatever the fuck else, but it doesn't negate this:

"His girlfriend whoever, sat at the crux move for 4-5 minutes. Hesitate and second guessing the move, she was about 8-10 feet about my partner and right in line if she fell. Clearly not having a fun time"  Five pages of picking ass hairs out of a turd changes nothing.  These people are morons, and they should be called morons.

 isn't the word "moron" a bit harsh? maybe something more like "poor decision makers" would be more appropriate? 

Sorry, I had to go for that last ass hair

Ally Lwrote:

Holy shit…have you ever handed out beers on the summit of Tahquitz??? My first time topping out was my first multipitch, almost three years ago. I was tired, scared, sweating and exhausted. Out of nowhere a smiling man in sunglasses wordlessly walked over and handed my partner and I canned beer. It was a hot day, and that beer was ICE COLD. I let out a surprised “thank you” and he simply nodded then disappeared from behind the rocks. No rope, no harness, and I was stunned. I never saw him again, not on the friction descent nor on the hike back down to the parking area.

One of the bigger mysteries in my boring life.

M Mwrote:

 isn't the word "moron" a bit harsh? maybe something more like "poor decision makers" would be more appropriate? 

Sorry, I had to go for that last ass hair

Yeah.  Concession made.  But I guess what you’re addressing is the decision, and I’m addressing what did or didn’t influence the decision.  But I don’t know that for a fact.  They both may be quite competent and I wasn’t there to see factors that may have contributed to what was described.  Presumptuous, at least.  So I’ll edit my comment to reflect that.  Thanks for calling it out.

TBlomwrote:

If a soloist makes a choice to put themselves at risk, fine.  The problem is putting others at risk who did not make that choice.

So you don't use highways, got it. Must be hard getting around.

J Cwrote:

So you don't use highways, got it. Must be hard getting around.

Same thing applies on highways.  If you put others in undue risk, you're a douche.

Climbing routes =/= highways

if you climb really easy routes you will get passed by soloists. especially in winter. long WI2 routs are winter hiking trails. pitching them out is arduous and sometimes dangerous. last time I climbed  Shoestring was very early season. I tagged along behind a group of 6 winter hikers that seemed like they were mostly North Conway guides. I know several other folks hiked it before us and assume there were hikers behind us. .   the ice was for the most part too thin for screws unless you had super stubbys.  naturally when  we got to the chockstone pitch there was a party pitching it out. Not being experienced enough they had a rack of 16cm screws and the belayer was  anchored with tied off 16s in 8cm of ice...  The whole gaggle of hikers passed them on the left up that chossy gravely ramp..   I suspect we were in much more danger on that climb of the one roped party having their belay fail and flossing the whole climb than they were of having a winter hiker slip and land on them...   the best plan for shoestring if you need a rope is to leave it in the pack and break it out for one of the harder  variations at the top. I suspect the 2nd flatiron is simeler. If you rope up for it you might be in the minority..... 

Sketchy soloist girl looks like she's going to biff it on roped climber at belay. Sheesh. If you free solo, be good at it and try not to solo routes with other parties on them. Since you are a soloist, you can also solo unprotected lines no one climbs. Ever think about that? Hmmmm. 

MP has a soloist tick on the same day as you climbed it (September 18th). Maybe you can address the issue with said climber.

the only time I have climbed Standard route We had a similar issue. We stopped at the P6 belay whole simuling (going to belay the 5.7 pitch) . The soloist passed us and proceeded to get sketched out as he got off route, he ended up screaming down that he needed a rescue. We ended up climbing around him and using a sling then had to bail to get him down. 

I have zero issues with soloing in front of people or passing people if you are moving like a competent climber. But Whitehorse seems to have a issue with this as I know a guide had to help someone off Beginners Easy for the same reason.

Imagine the soloist was Alex Honnold and he stopped for a few minutes en-route and said, "Idk what's up but I'm sketching out here." Likely, you'd accept his level of comfort and would be posting here about how cool it was to watch Alex Honnold solo past you. You wouldn't consider for one second that Alex was a dick for soloing past you. Despite the preened, reel-rock image of soloing, Alex said in interviews he doesn't like to film onsight soloing because it would make many people uncomfortable, the amount of up/down climbing and prodding around before committing. 

The same logic applies. With rare exception, the soloist is likely significantly more experienced than you or your partner and gets the right of way, even if you feel uncomfortable with and intruded upon by their level of climbing, unless, of course, the soloist is intentionally being a dick or radically unsafe and reckless.

Eric Marxwrote:

Imagine the soloist was Alex Honnold and he stopped for a few minutes en-route and said, "Idk what's up but I'm sketching out here." Likely, you'd accept his level of comfort and would be posting here about how cool it was to watch Alex Honnold solo past you. You wouldn't consider for one second that Alex was a dick for soloing past you.

The same logic applies. With rare exception, the soloist is likely significantly more experienced than you or your partner and gets the right of way, even if you feel uncomfortable with and intruded upon by their level of climbing, unless, of course, the soloist is intentionally being a dick or radically unsafe and reckless.

This is preposterous.  This scenario with your imaginary Alex Honnold is the same as you solo'ing Freerider; it isn't going to happen.  But if we are playing fantasy games, I would be pissed if Jesus Christ himself solo'd above me in sketchy fashion and admitted to me that he was nervous.  

I would agree with your second statement.  Most of the soloists I've seen are pretty dialed in, polite, and I've never had an issue with being passed.  However, in the last 2-3 years I have seen something new; sketchy soloists that make me want to turn away or leave the area.  I've never had one of these people climb above me, but I would be pretty annoyed if they did, while I'm on lead and in the middle of something. If I'm at a belay, no big deal I'll just wait til they clear the area, keeping my head up and ready to dodge a missile.

Bb Cc wrote:

“The logic of...the Soloist is more experienced and therefore gets the right of way...” is not logic rather arbitrariousness. Much like: our team of 4 has 20 years of experience amongst us.

When people say this, what they are really saying is "the soloist climbs harder than you do, and therefore gets the right of way."  It's a bit of a shot to one's ego, but in general I think it's true.

EDIT @ Bb Cc (over post limit) I understand your point.  Outside of these (mostly) ridiculous hypotheticals, I treat it similar to driving on a multi-lane highway.  Climbing is popular and routes get crowded, and there's always going to be fast parties and slow parties, and everyone needs to find a way to accommodate each other, as safely and reasonably as possible.  Some parties move unbearably slow, and should honestly expect to be passed.  Soloists generally move quickly and confidently over terrain, so passing people is generally not a problem.  When you start posing weird hypotheticals, which really don't happen very often, yeah everything gets weird and there is gray area where the ethics aren't as clear.