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Passed by a soloing couple on a climb.... who was in the wrong?
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Over this past weekend I was on a 8 pitch climb in New Hampshire (Standard Route on Whitehorse Slabs). Above the Lunch Ledge pitch, pitch 6, I tied into the anchor and called down for my girlfriend to start climbing. After a few moves she stopped, a couple was passing her free solo. My girlfriend was off the anchor and about 1/3 up the pitch. The couple passed her one by one. The boyfriend of the group moved pass her and the crux move (5.7) and got to the ledge next to me. His girlfriend whoever, sat at the crux move for 4-5 minutes. Hesitate and second guessing the move, she was about 8-10 feet about my partner and right in line if she fell. Clearly not having a fun time. Luckily she pulled the move and they carried on. The party below us was pissed that they passed us mid-pitch. What is one to do? I am a new trad multi-pitch climber so I am still figuring out a lot of my own decisions and this caught me off guard. Were we in the wrong for not seeing them before we started out pitch? Should I have laid into the guy and told him off in the middle of his girlfriend trying to do a very hard move? Would love to here some thoughts. |
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They were in the wrong for passing without asking or even coordinating with you. It's also kind of poor judgement of them to solo a route with a bunch of parties ahead of them, unless there are variations that allow them to bypass other parties. |
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I dunno. Be glad you didn't witness an accident I suppose. You can kinda choose to ignore folks who jam you up or say something. Not sure you're going to get a behavior change by speaking up. I guess if you told them it wasn't cool for them to pass they might think about it. They took a bit of a risk supposing you or your second wasn't going to fall and knock them off. Seems kinda sketchy. My guess is that route gets soloed a lot. You'd think folks would ask to play through. Not to pick, but...I thought that pitch below the lunch ledge was 5.4? "Very hard move"...? |
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It was above the Lunch Ledge, my mistake on that. We did a 5.7 variation instead of the Brown Spot Pitch. |
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Ahhh...gotcha. Even more...yikes! |
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If they were solid, and showed some courtesy, that would have been one thing. But sketch, right above your partner? A full on horror show. |
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Sketch is in the eye of the beholder Some people panic more easily than others |
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They weren’t in the wrong. Passing people when soloing is the norm. |
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Spencer, I was in the party below you. Brian in SLC wrote: She almost lost it in at least two places 1. Just below the lunch ledge, where it gets steeper (but still 5.4). Somehow she got off route. After some minutes of hesitation and coaching from her partner she down climbed and got back on route. I was leading Slabs Direct just below but stayed out of the fall line until they were on the ledge. 2. Just above the lunch ledge, that's where they climbed through Spencer's party. Meanwhile her partner was turning around to film her struggling... |
Nic Gravley wrote: I feel like it should only be the norm when you’re absolutely comfortable with the route, because soloing implies you’re going to move faster than roped parties and there’s no chance of you falling. The detail that I feel put them in the wrong was the woman hesitating on the crux for several minutes. Someone shouldn’t have to wait midpitch for you to get your shit together. Even then I still think it’s a better day for everyone if you at least ask. |
Ally L wrote: I have had to wait behind parties sketching out lots of time on a rope, sketching out and taking time to figure out a move until you're comfortable are two different things. Passing while soloing is always the norm, you are not in danger the soloist is, they take priority. If you fall with the soloist behind you even if you are seconding rope stretch means you are likely to land on the soloist sending them plummeting to their death. |
Brandon R wrote: I slightly disagree. It’s sort of inevitable at this point that soloists and roped parties will be on the same routes. Something easy enough to be a popular solo is going to attract beginning climbers, and will be busy enough that waiting probably isn’t an option. I like the word “coordinate” here — I don’t think a soloist should have to ask permission. They WILL be faster than a roped party and it should be assumed that they’ll pass. It’s reasonable to coordinate when/where/how they pass.
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Kind of echoing what's already been said, I feel like if a soloist is SOLID the roped/slower party should let them pass, but 2 things tho: They should have at least ASKED you to play thru, and secondly not passed while your partner was mid pitch, that is just poor form. I disagree with the notion that someone shouldn't solo a multipitch while others are on it, but either find a variation, or pass while the roped party are at a junction aka anchor/ledge, so there's minimal interference. |
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It’s a dick move to solo a route and put yourself above someone else you could hurt in a fall. If someone wants to free solo go ahead but don’t put other people in danger in the process. |
that guy named seb wrote: With this logic wouldn’t it be better for the soloist to pass only when the roped climbers are in direct at an anchor anyway? Because by the soloist passing mid-pitch they’re choosing to enter the territory of potential impact with a roped climber. I dunno, when soloing I try to at least talk to the roped party, and I’d like to think it puts us both at ease. At least we can get an assessment of each other. |
Ally L wrote: If there is room to pass for the soloist then the leader is able to make him self comfortable enough to not fall.
Talking is always the preferrable option if the opportunity to pass is not immediate it can be agreed that the soloist may pass a few meters higher or at the next opportunity. But the soloist should always pass as soon as possible. |
that guy named seb wrote: if someone comes climbing up behind you when you are already on the route they don't get priority unless they are in complete control and can pass in a way that causes minimal inconvenience and risk if someone needs several minutes to figure out a 5.7 move then they do not fit that requirement soloists were in the wrong but this thread is going to get a lot of people who say otherwise because they glorify soloing or need to justify their own crappy behavior |
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My next question, when is it ok for me to "be a dick"? If she fell, she would have fallen onto my climbing partner probably broken my climbing partners leg and clearly she would have died/gotten badly hurt. We are all out here for a fun time and understand we are taking a high level of risk. When does someone crossing over that line become acceptable to call them out? Again, I am on my 3rd multi-pitch trad lead climb and this couple is soloing, clearly they have more experience/time in the sport. |
Spencer Ralston wrote: Soloists have right of way, you were driving slow in the left lane, so to speak. As a climber you must accept that others have different risk tolerances and that may make you uncomfortable at times. The assumption that she might fall and break your partners leg seems like a stretch and if she did her fate would certainly overshadow your partners. |
Tradiban wrote: The soloist was the one cruxing on 5.4. Spencer and his girlfriend were moving along without difficulty. |
Spencer Ralston wrote: that's the hard part because by asserting your right to say no you are aware you could be putting them in more danger which means the best answer is usually to let them do what they want to do even though they are in the wrong Again, I am on my 3rd multi-pitch trad lead climb and this couple is soloing, clearly they have more experience/time in the sport. lol, you'd be surprised most soloists are very solid at the grade they are soloing and know how to pass smoothly and respectfully they are day hiking and not climbing what happened to you does not happen that often hopefully you have a story to tell, that won't happen again |
