Dog rant

I've been on both sides of the bring the dog to the crag scene and would probably be on the bring the dog side still but I have a special dog now that is absolutely nuts and might bring a dead fawn back to the wall, that or a thousand porcupine quills in her face. I also hate seeing a poor tied up dog with humans up on the wall, thats some shitty planning right there, dangerous too. If your dog is well behaved off leash its my best friend too.

Title should be dog rant and raves.

Good doggies get belly scratches.  Bad doggies have their human scolded.  

There’s a fraction of the population who cannot find a compromise with the dogs. Regardless of the dog/owner behavior.

I’m one of those people. I do not like dogs. Period. I cannot be reasoned with. I probably have a deep implicit bias or childhood trauma.

How does this affect my climbing experience? It doesn’t. The occasional eye roll, maybe.

Tolerance is the virtue that makes peace possible.

After all this, I'll just say: there DO exist dogs who are well-trained enough to be off-leash at the crag, but these are few and far between: most dog owners do not adequately train their dogs for this sort of complex situation.

Dog attacks AREN'T the problem in most cases: most dogs are very gentle creatures even with very little training. I think focusing this discussion on dog attacks is the wrong approach because most dog owners are simply going to think you simply haven't bothered to learn about dogs, and they're right. Sure, there's occasionally a violent dog, just like occasionally there's a violent human. But while dog fear isn't your fault, it IS your responsibility: you can't really expect everyone to modify their behavior around your disproportionate fear of dogs any more than you could expect people to modify their behavior around a disproportionate fear of humans.

But perfectly gentle dogs still poop and pee in the wrong places, get into people's food, get in the way, harass wildlife, and trample foliage. You may think your dog is perfectly friendly and people who threaten to stab your dog are assholes, and you're probably right. But does your dog stay on trails? Does your dog stay on a doggie bed or something like that while you climb, instead of running up to random strangers who are trying to do potentially dangerous things like belay and climb? I think most dog owners will admit their dog is not that well trained, and can see that these things are problems.

The idea that my friend's golden retriever is going to attack someone is absurd. You can literally put your hand in his food dish while he's eating and he'll slow down to gingerly eat around your fingers without biting you. I've seen him respond to toddlers sticking their fingers in his eyes by licking their faces. If you're afraid of this dog, that is very much an irrational fear that is YOUR problem.

However, the idea that this same dog will trample endangered flowers in one of the climbing areas around here, is not far-fetched; it's just reality, which is why that dog stays on leash and on trail.

I've witnessed more tied up dogs digging holes/shredding vegetation and being aggressive than I have unleashed ones. The leash is definitely not the magical problem solver.

That moment when you realize your whole life has somehow become that dog thread.

Colonel Mustardwrote:

That moment when you realize your whole life has somehow become that dog thread.

Could be worse.  You could be a MP troll.  Oh wait.  

Maquinna M wrote:

For me it mostly depends on the crag, some places seem to just attract a certain type of shitty dog owner.   The dry wall out side of SLC always has a shitty dog there. There's always one off leash pestering someone or on leash digging holes by the 11a warm-up.  

However when I go to Massacre in Idaho I often see another party there with a dog off leash that I hardly notice.   

Seems planning and having back-up plans of how to leave the dog at home while thinking about what places are appropriate would go a long way. Sadly that's not going to happen so I'd recommend working with land owners and collations to work with placing bans at places that have perpetual problems.  It took a while for City of Rocks to enforce leashing dogs, and for the Cottonwoods to out right ban dogs. Might sounds harsh to people who are really attached to their dogs but its the honestly best approach to preserve our natural resources. 

Colonel Mustardwrote:

That moment when you realize your whole life has somehow become that dog thread.

don't listen to him keep up the good trolling

Dog owners often take their dog climbing with them so they don’t have to worry about the hound barking, whining, or digging holes in their yard at home if they leave it outside. If they leave it inside - fleas, dog hair on furniture, pee, poop, chewed up just about everything, mournful howling pissing off the neighbors. They also don’t have to devote time just to walking it around their neighborhood.

Also because they love their pet, or have a codependent relationship with it.

The easiest, cheapest solution is to bring hound with, hoping other climbers will enjoy their mutt as much as they do. Sometimes it works.

Kevin Worrallwrote:

Dog owners often take their dog climbing with them so they don’t have to worry about the hound barking, whining, or digging holes in their yard at home if they leave it outside. If they leave it inside - fleas, dog hair on furniture, pee, poop, chewed up just about everything, mournful howling pissing off the neighbors. They also don’t have to devote time just to walking it around their neighborhood.

Also because they love their pet, or have a codependent relationship with it.

The easiest, cheapest solution is to bring hound with, hoping other climbers will enjoy their mutt as much as they do. Sometimes it works.

Try dropping off your dog at a licensed and insured dog daycare.  About $25 a day.  Cheap, easy, and safe.  

Chad Millerwrote:

Try dropping off your dog at a licensed and insured dog daycare.  About $25 a day.  Cheap, easy, and safe.  

And they come back all tuckered out from playing with other dogs. seriously a great option 

Jesus Crimpin Christwrote:

don't listen to him keep up the good trolling

No worries there. I know it’s not always good but 2/10 is good enough for baseball and trolling.

8 pages to go folks. Let’s keep up the good work.

My dog is the best. Better than yours. I don’t really like yours. You might feel similarly about mine. Let’s do each other a favor and not bring them climbing. Then we don’t end up in the embarrassing situation where we meet each other’s dogs and you have to concede that mine is better. 

Jordan Wilsonwrote:

 It took a while for City of Rocks to enforce leashing dogs, and for the Cottonwoods to out right ban dogs.

The Cottonwoods dog ban has nothing to do with climbing. It’s because those canyons are a watershed and supply our water. The prohibition has been in place for over 30 years. 

Marc801 C wrote:

The Cottonwoods dog ban has nothing to do with climbing. It’s because those canyons are a watershed and supply our water. The prohibition has been in place for over 30 years. 

Damn, for some reason I thought it happened while I was in highschool/college, guess it was Jr High.  Either way it happened because of people realizing the problem dog traffic can have and is a good example of working together protect natural resources. 

Some of the advice on dog care here, albeit well-meaning, really shows a limited experience IMO. At least in my area, doggy daycare is at least double that in cost, and has very difficult pick-up and drop-off times that are not conducive to a climbing day-trip. Overnights are a lot more. And they all seem to require a paid "meet and greet" of several hours before they accept you as a client, IF they even have room for you at all. Maybe your areas are different. Still, I do sometimes use those options when my SO and I want to go to a crag where dogs aren't allowed or we want to do multipitch. Those suggesting to "just put it on a leash" don't realize that many dogs behave much worse when on a leash than when not. Some get defensive, some just try like hell to escape. We use an e-collar (with tone/vibrate/shock option), which has worked wonders with training, and I'd highly recommend for those with unruly dogs.  Also, a giant eye-roll to anyone who's making armchair psychoanalysis of the reasons one might have a pet. What may be true for you, isn't necessarily true for others. And what may seem like such an obvious and simple solution to you, may not be when you actually have to do it.  

And to my dearest Jordan... I only called you those big meanie names when you repeatedly mischaracterized (whether intentionally trolling or just due to reading issues, IDK) what I actually said. I do acknowledge that there are bad crag dog situations at certain areas that should be remedied. IDK if you just have a blind spot for the several times I've said as much, but I have. What I don't care for is people on the internet making judgement calls about other people based on their experiences with yet again completely different people. And people making absolute statements based on X number of bad experiences, but not factoring in the (X + 1000) good or neutral experiences. And there has been PLENTY of that here, even if I don't count the extremists stances displayed by the "tough guys" and GRUNT GRUNTs of the forum. Judging by your last couple posts, I probably don't disagree with you as much as you want to believe I do. I do still think you're a lost cause though, due to the previously mentioned reasons (gaslighting troll or just a high-funtioning, verbose r-tard -- go ahead and report me to HR). And I do still think this thread is mostly pointless, due to the over generalization, miscommunication, and militant attitudes from many (but not all). Then again, I suppose I should expect that in a thread titled "dog rant"... my bad.   

Kevin Worrallwrote:

If you have a SO, doggy daycare cost is effectively cut in half!

Also, if you think dealing with that is inconvenient and expensive, and your SO is like most of the female species, you can look at it as training for child rearing.

Oh jeez, where to start... 

Never mind, not taking the bait this time.