Single use propane cannisters likely to be banned in california.

Locker wrote:

expensive, but...

https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder/dp/B00MM3GCVO

and

https://www.amazon.com/SHINESTAR-Propane-Extension-High-Pressure-Connector/dp/B088M19K8Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3054O1YLXPRE3&keywords=adapter+to+refill+propane+cylinders&qid=1661634247&s=lawn-garden&sprefix=adapter+to+refill+propane+cylinders%2Clawngarden%2C398&sr=1-2-spons&psc=1

This. I have the flame king products and they are GREAT. I use the refillable yanks for everything from my Mr buddy heater for winter bouldering to a torch in my car ship. They are easy to refill and totally safe. I have tried to refill the normal ones and have the valve stick open and shoot a pound of liquid propane everywhere. Hank hill was disappointed.

Regarding the expense, they pay for themselves after a handful of fill ups.

 The company has a bunch of vids on how to fill them. You need a full larger propane tank and you have to flip it upside down so the liquid goes through the fill neck instead of the gas.

A buddy works maintenence in Tuolumne and he says people pitch SO MANY of those cylinders. It's nuts.

Marco Velowrote:

Simply installing a Maxwell’s Demon—if you can find one—will solve this problem. 

Or a cup of hot tea.

I've refilled 1lb green propane tanks from my 20lb gas grill tank. For some reason I was thinking the small butane stove tanks were gas instead of liquid. 

The reason I asked about pressure equalization was that liquid/gas confusion and that it's common in the aircraft industry to "refill" O2 and N2 tanks via a cascade system. But, these tend to "equalize" and not completely fill. The company I used to work for made boosters to pump O2 or N2 from several partially filled tanks into one tank to make one fully pressurized tank. Small aircraft use O2 tanks instead of generators for breathing and N2 tanks for emergency landing gear blowdown if the hydraulic system fails.

Well well well, looks like I'll be reinstating the trusty trash can fire.

When do you think California witll mandate reusable condoms?

The reusable method Locker mentions is good - stove fuel, not condoms.  My issue is with those leftover fuel cannisters after those epic expeditions.

Single-use??? Oh, my gosh ... that'll be a LOT of pancakes in one batch!

You guys know you can actually turn off the stove and save the remaining gas for next day's breakfast, right?

Maybe they can put a label on the cans describing this hard-to-understand concept, so even Californians would get it.

Interesting!  Will look into refilling!  Thanks, Locker.

Anyone know what the lightest stove on the market is that would use a storm king/green coleman canister?

Jon Rhoderickwrote:

Anyone know what the lightest stove on the market is that would use a storm king/green coleman canister?

I was curious myself, had to google. Looks to me wally world comes to the rescue with this -

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wadeo-Propane-Outdoor-Stove/547419188 

This stove takes 1lb propane canisters - adapter included. Lists for 15.99.

IIRC, if you dig around amazon you will find adapters to connect any camping stove to the 1lb propane bottles, refill kits and adapters as well.

I've been refilling the propane cylinders my whole life, well since my dad showed me how to do it when I was like 10 years old. To equalize you use a pair of needle nose pliars to open the value on the cylinder to be filled. You let the gas out as the cylinder fills with liquid. At first only gas comes out. It's best to have the 20 lb cylinder upside down when doing this. The receiving  canister is upright. This way liquid propane gas flows out of the bottom of the 20lb bottle into the top of the smaller propane canister. Keep pulling the valve until suddenly liquid will literally start spurting out and ice up the needle nose pliars, turning them white. Let go of the valve and shut off the big 20 lb cylinder. You're done.

The valves will eventually wear out and won't want to close so well anymore. Retire those canisters. Some I've refilled so many times the threads eventually wear out. Retire them. Haven 't bought a new one in, well, forever,

ps. don't do this in your house or garage, as a spark could spell disaster. And don't do it outside near your air conditioner apparatus. AWAY FROM SPARKS.

Patrikwrote:

Single-use??? Oh, my gosh ... that'll be a LOT of pancakes in one batch!

You guys know you can actually turn off the stove and save the remaining gas for next day's breakfast, right?

Maybe they can put a label on the cans describing this hard-to-understand concept, so even Californians would get it.

Are you this literal all the time? 

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I've been refilling the propane cylinders my whole life, well since my dad showed me how to do it when I was like 10 years old. To equalize you use a pair of needle nose pliars to open the value on the cylinder to be filled. You let the gas out as the cylinder fills with liquid. At first only gas comes out. It's best to have the 20 lb cylinder upside down when doing this. The receiving  canister is upright. This way liquid propane gas flows out of the bottom of the 20lb bottle into the top of the smaller propane canister. Keep pulling the valve until suddenly liquid will literally start spurting out and ice up the needle nose pliars, turning them white. Let go of the valve and shut off the big 20 lb cylinder. You're done.

The valves will eventually wear out and won't want to close so well anymore. Retire those canisters. Some I've refilled so many times the threads eventually wear out. Retire them. Haven 't bought a new one in, well, forever,

ps. don't do this in your house or garage, as a spark could spell disaster. And don't do it outside near your air conditioner apparatus. AWAY FROM SPARKS.

For us verbally impaired -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb0dV-1397c 

The green cans are suddenly really expensive now for no particular reason. Guess I'll look into the hacked refill option. 

Locker wrote:

expensive, but...

https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-Refillable-Propane-Cylinder/dp/B00MM3GCVO

That's just weird amazon pricing -- I bought a few for $12. 

gtlukewrote:

The green cans are suddenly really expensive now for no particular reason. Guess I'll look into the hacked refill option. 

yeaaa...don't do this. DOT 39 cylinders are designed for single use only. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_GhyAw3vM

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I've been refilling the propane cylinders my whole life, well since my dad showed me how to do it when I was like 10 years old. 

you can also drive without a seal belt for years with no consequences...doesn't make it a smart idea. 

curt86irocwrote:

yeaaa...don't do this. DOT 39 cylinders are designed for single use only. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_GhyAw3vM

you can also drive without a seal belt for years with no consequences...doesn't make it a smart idea. 

Excellent point regarding refilling single use cylinders. 

Get something designed to be refillable -

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I've been refilling the propane cylinders my whole life, well since my dad showed me how to do it when I was like 10 years old. To equalize you use a pair of needle nose pliars to open the value on the cylinder to be filled. You let the gas out as the cylinder fills with liquid. At first only gas comes out. It's best to have the 20 lb cylinder upside down when doing this. The receiving  canister is upright. This way liquid propane gas flows out of the bottom of the 20lb bottle into the top of the smaller propane canister. Keep pulling the valve until suddenly liquid will literally start spurting out and ice up the needle nose pliars, turning them white. Let go of the valve and shut off the big 20 lb cylinder. You're done.

The valves will eventually wear out and won't want to close so well anymore. Retire those canisters. Some I've refilled so many times the threads eventually wear out. Retire them. Haven 't bought a new one in, well, forever,

ps. don't do this in your house or garage, as a spark could spell disaster. And don't do it outside near your air conditioner apparatus. AWAY FROM SPARKS.

I don't touch the relief valve on the 1 lb cylinder, since I can't be sure it will reseal.  At least that is one viewpoint. And I don't use cylinders that seem too beat up.  There is a DOT rule making it illegal to transport refilled disposable bottles.   law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49…

Weigh all the 1 lb cylinders when full and empty and write on a label on the side of it.  I guess with your way you could weigh it and then check it a week later and see if it still weighs the same exact amount, to see if it is leaking.

Instead, put the 1 lb cylinder in a fridge ahead of time to chill it.  (I'm not sure if there is an optimum temperature.  I haven't tried a freezer.  If it's too cold then you might overfill)  This method takes advantage of the difference in vapor pressure between the big tank and the little cylinder, instead of just using the gravity of the denser liquid flow. You could warm the big tank some, as long as it has at least a little liquid propane.    As you wrote, Fill it using the adapter outdoors, with the 20 lb tank upside down.  The higher vapor pressure in the big tank will press the liquid down to the lower bottle.  Weigh it and see how full it is.  Yes this method is slower than opening the relief valve, but I think it is safer.  It might take another round of freezing the one lb cylinder and repeating the transfer if you want it more full.  Do NOT overfill it with more than one pound.  Propane tanks are meant to be filled to 80%.  That will leave a sufficient amount of vapor in the tank so it's not all liquid.  

You can find other detailed instructions at various weblinks with more information.   Clean the threads properly.   I saw one using a hose with a built in shutoff valve.  This also allows the 1 lb bottle to be upright, not on its side.

Probably in the long run we will switch to the heavier one-lb bottles that are meant to be reused, especially if they aren't $55 and reasonable pricing becomes common.  

The refillable option doesn't help people on road trips that don't have space for a bigger tank. I bet people will switch back to white gas stoves and subsequently California will burn down

rockhardwrote:

The refillable option doesn't help people on road trips that don't have space for a bigger tank. I bet people will switch back to white gas stoves and subsequently California will burn down

The new law does not apply to isobutane canisters, just the green propane canisters. My money is on at least some people going to two burner stoves that run on isobutane, or the remote canister isobutane  stoves that let you use a bigger pot or pan than the canister top stoves. There are also refillable 5 lb propane bottles that are less hassle than refilling your own 1 b bottle, but don’t take up as much space or weigh as much as the 20 lb bottles.

If you live in the Bay Area, Sports Basement has been providing refillable propane cannisters for years. Refills are free for members at the rental desk.