Would dropping 10lbs really make that much of a difference?

The stronger a climber you are, the more loosing weight starts to make sense.

Don't take this badly, but if your ticks are somewhat accurate, I think it would still make more sense to put all of your eggs into climber & training for climbing, at the moment. I've seen quite a few people climb harder stuff with worst-looking bmi (obviously I don't gather weight/height of everyone I see at the gym/crag, but you get the point).

It's pretty obvious that being 10lbs lighter will make a difference. But how much of a difference is "that much"? Is it a letter grade?  A full grade? Hard to say. 

If you're 160lbs, dropping 10lbs is roughly about 6%. If you're already at 10-11 % body fat, where's the weight going to come from? Maybe stop cycling?

I used to be a competitive cyclist and my legs are still pretty big for a "climber". I don't bike any more save the occasional mountain bike ride but I still can't shake the big legs. I'm 5'10", I weigh 170-175 and am 9% body fat, below 170 I become unhealthy. I work the hell out of my fingers, do a ton of pulling exercises, and stretch a bit - still can't shake the big legs. (On the plus side, my legs NEVER get tired and I find pistol squat type movement fairly easy.)

I think there's a lot of merit to what the Long Ranger says. Everyone's morphology is different, you can try losing weight and see if it works for you. 

Daniel Pattersonwrote:

Don't ask but I randomly just saw that some of the hardest boulderers out there are like 140lbs, some 5'10''. Which blows my mind. Here I am thinking being 5'9" 160lbs was light weight. I mean it seems stupid to ask but this is a valid question. Train to get stronger? Or bike every day and lose 10lbs? I mean sure do both, but I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on this. Have you ever considered this?

Maybe this is only applicable with bouldering since you need to have short bursts of intense energy. Whereas lead or trad climbing is more gradual energy usage over time. 

Missed this on my first pass…

The opposite's actually true: you can afford to be heavier (and more muscular) on boulder problems than routes, especially long, sustained routes. There are some exceptions depending on the style (well-spaced complete rests, highly technical lines where you're on your feet, etc.) but, in general, longer lines brutally punish carrying extra weight, which includes unnecessary muscle. Among other adjustments, heavier climbers ought to climb faster to compensate, since the clock ticks faster for us than for lighter climbers.

As others have mentioned, I think body composition is missing from your analysis.

I will say that, for bouldering, your current BMI is absolutely fine. I truly believe you could climb V12 with no change to your BMI, only strength/skill improvements, concomitant improvements in body composition and weight distribution, and… 5-10 years of training. (But as I'm starting to realize, in reality very few people keep training consistently into adulthood.)

10lbs is big difference for me especially for power. It's not a all year thing though. Only for a month or two for cold weather sending. Usually I train heavy until it's performance time.

Yes, I agree with Long Ranger if the OP's question is 'how do I climb higher grades, is losing weight the best option, here is where I am, what should I do..." Then I would say probably not, especially if the OP is muscular and fit and doesn't have 10lbs of useless weight to get rid of (like I do). Then the answer is work on your weaknesses first (fitness, strength, technique, mental). If the question is whether 10lbs makes a difference in climbing performance - the answer is yes, pretty noticeable depending on the style. In fact, I think until you are popping up above .12s and V5-6-ish, just climbing a lot is the best way to improve and no training is typically needed.

F r i t zwrote:

Congrats on onsighting that 5.11c. It's a respectable grade no matter how hard someone climbs. It took me many years to get there, probably because I spent an inordinate amount of time waddling up hand cracks and offwidths and didn't take sport climbing seriously until recently :-D 

In Long Ranger's defense, because in the ten years I've been reading his posts I've found him to be a good dude with a wealth of experience and good tips to share  --  your ticklist is mostly comprised of easier climbs. (That spicy V3+ looks cool, nice work on that). And your first outdoor lead was a 5.10b five months ago. 

I'm not being the tick police here (I only tick routes that I consider memorable or useful for partner-finder virtue-signalling purposes). Just saying that if I browsed through your ticks for the purposes of this discussion, I would probably agree with him in encouraging focusing on mileage and technique.

At the same time, being ten pounds lighter than usual for any climb is the scheiB and I highly recommend it within healthy boundaries.

Not tryna come across as snarky, patronizing or sarcastic in any of that, you got tha straight gote talk here, strict constructionists only.

Don't worry you didn't. I honestly didn't want to talk about by ticklist because it's obvious I'm a newer climber. I myself am not impressed with having one 5.11c lead onsight. Which was kinda why I made this post. To help educate myself on the weight aspect of climbing to further my training. But nevertheless, he was reading the ticklist wrong, that's the only reason I said something. Believe me, saying I climbed one 5.11c was the last thing that I wanted to do, since there are so many gnarly hard climbers that read these posts lol

Daniel Pattersonwrote:

I honestly didn't want to talk about by ticklist because it's obvious I'm a newer climber.

Sure, but that's relevant info, especially if you want to improve. It doesn't necessarily mean anything about you specifically, but newer climbers in general will often benefit from strength, technique, and/or mental training without the risks associated weight loss (all else being equal, and assuming the individual isn't overweight).

 I myself am not impressed with having one 5.11c lead onsight. 

Why not? Having goals and desiring improvement are great, but it's also okay to acknowledge achievement. That's obviously not world class, but .11c onsight is certainly respectable. 

Believe me, saying I climbed one 5.11c was the last thing that I wanted to do, since there are so many gnarly hard climbers that read these posts lol

By definition, anyone who is currently onsighting harder than .11c could not have been onsighting harder than .11c at one point, and everyone on that same list had their first .11c onsight, too (meaning they only had one, like you). In other words, those "gnarly hard climbers" have been where you are at least once. And that makes them exactly who you want to hear from, since they probably have some insight about the steps in between where you are and where they are. 

Anyone who's judging you for being in a place they themselves have been is just being a jerk. Don't let the jerks stop you from asking questions or being honest about where you're currently at. That's how you make progress.

i think the question i have is "how hard would it be for you to lose the 10 pounds?"  if it's one of those things where you can see it in the mirror and you don't like it, and you can easily cut back on beer and ice cream, then that seems like it's a pretty straight forward yes.

on the other hand, if you are already a slice of chiseled brisket, and you are going to have to resort to eating half-blades of wheatgrass while sleeping in a garbage bag - well, i would say that's a pretty straight forward no.

Depends on what your healthy weight is. I've been climbing stronger and better at 206 than I ever did at 198. 

Adam Ronchettiwrote:

Depends on what your healthy weight is. I've been climbing stronger and better at 206 than I ever did at 198. 

It only works in 10lbs increments. Sorry.

Adam Ronchettiwrote:

Depends on what your healthy weight is. I've been climbing stronger and better at 206 than I ever did at 198. 

Thats probably a hydration thing more than a mass change thing. 

Derek DeBruinwrote:

Sure, but that's relevant info, especially if you want to improve. It doesn't necessarily mean anything about you specifically, but newer climbers in general will often benefit from strength, technique, and/or mental training without the risks associated weight loss (all else being equal, and assuming the individual isn't overweight).

Why not? Having goals and desiring improvement are great, but it's also okay to acknowledge achievement. That's obviously not world class, but .11c onsight is certainly respectable. 

By definition, anyone who is currently onsighting harder than .11c could not have been onsighting harder than .11c at one point, and everyone on that same list had their first .11c onsight, too (meaning they only had one, like you). In other words, those "gnarly hard climbers" have been where you are at least once. And that makes them exactly who you want to hear from, since they probably have some insight about the steps in between where you are and where they are. 

Anyone who's judging you for being in a place they themselves have been is just being a jerk. Don't let the jerks stop you from asking questions or being honest about where you're currently at. That's how you make progress.

Thanks man! I like that way of looking at it!

grug gwrote:

Thats probably a hydration thing more than a mass change thing. 

Not impossible but I'm usually pretty good about that.

Unsolicited diet advice for having energy to climb while losing and maintaining a low weight: Don't diet constantly, use fasting. Chronic calorie restriction sucks, and fasting can be tough but it's a hell of a lot easier to squeeze it all into 36-48hrs 1-2x a month and be done with it than being starving and tired all the time.

Basically fasting is a rest/productivity day, drink water, take electrolytes, go on long walks and maybe do some light finger/hand antagonist exercises. It's surprising how much time is freed up not having to cook, eat, clean 2-3x per day.

Then eat to fuel training & performance otherwise. 

K Gowrote:

Unsolicited diet advice for having energy to climb while losing and maintaining a low weight: Don't diet constantly, use fasting. Chronic calorie restriction sucks, and fasting can be tough but it's a hell of a lot easier to squeeze it all into 36-48hrs 1-2x a month and be done with it than being starving and tired all the time.

Basically fasting is a rest/productivity day, drink water, take electrolytes, go on long walks and maybe do some light finger/hand antagonist exercises. It's surprising how much time is freed up not having to cook, eat, clean 2-3x per day.

Then eat to fuel training & performance otherwise. 

How's climbing the day after a fasting day? Seems like depleting your glycogen sources would make for a terrible next day?

F r i t zwrote:

How's climbing the day after a fasting day? Seems like depleting your glycogen sources would make for a terrible next day?

Depends how you do it. Some UFC fighters drop 40+ pounds and then gain most of it back within 24 hours. Kabib nurmagomedov dropped around 50-60 pounds for his 25 minute long title bouts at the 145 weight class. Homie walked around at 200ish pounds. It's IMO the biggest part of why he was so unstoppable, he dropped weight to nearly deadly levels. Dedication. Jonny Hendricks is another fighter who dropped about 45-50 pounds for his fights.

Also more directly, a lot of fighters will lose 10-15 pounds in the last 24 hours prior to weigh-ins. 

OP, At age 26, I dropped from 165 to 155 as a result of eating to manage budget constraints.  I didn’t starve or miss meals and typically was not hungry. At, 155, I was weaker and could swim fewer laps per 40 minutes than at 165.  (strange standard: that was door to door 1.5 hrs.) Today, I weigh 200lbs at age 47.  I fluctuate down to 195 and up to 205.  Those 10lbs don’t make a difference.

Optimizing your technique, strength, energy level and power to weight ratio will all help.  I urge you not to deplete you strength or energy level attempting to maximize power to weight ratio.  

Optimizing multiple variables is harder and often more effective than minimizing or maximizing one variable. 

F r i t zwrote:

How's climbing the day after a fasting day? Seems like depleting your glycogen sources would make for a terrible next day?

It depends what you try to do and how you refeed but expect a day of lower performance after ending a fast. Climb Sunday, eat a protein heavy but low carb dinner, fast & walk Monday, fast most or all of Tuesday then refeed tues evening / wed morning. First meal is small and low carb, next meal can be normal-ish with low-to-medium GI carbs, then you're back to normal. 

Ex: Break your fast wed morning at breakfast, then eat carby lunch and you could climb that evening at a bit reduced capacity. By the next day you'll prob feel normal. Or break it tues night and you might feel normal by wed evening. 

So those weeks maybe you only climb 1 or 2 days plus the weekend. You can drop 2 or 3 or more lb of fat in a 48hr fast with walking, and you'll only need to do that twice a month for a couple months to set a new weight baseline. After that, do it less frequently to maintain whatever weight you want. 

I'd rather feel low performance at the gym 2 days a month than every day with calorie restriction. 

https://rockclimbingguru.com/average-height-weight-and-bmi-of-54-professional-climbers/

https://latticetraining.com/2017/10/04/bmi-and-climbing/

to break into v1 is a very different goal than breaking into v13. at v1, 10 lbs will unlikely be the deciding factor. at v13, it's not even worth an attempt. 

i'd also caution against taking advice from people in the usa, their definition of 'healthy weight' is incongruous with obesity mortality. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780738/

"These age patterns in the obesity–mortality associations became evident only after we controlled for obesity variation in the effect of respondents’ ages-at-survey on mortality risk, suggesting that age-related survey selection strongly influences the estimates of obesity’s effect on age-specific mortality risk.19–22 "

but definitely don't let science stand in the way of food. it's all muscle so 50 bmi is fine, right?

Hard to say if it's weight, age, lifestyle, or the fact that I no longer climb as much plus had to take years off due to injuries. My climbing decreased a number grade (14a to 13a) after gaining about 15 lbs over the course of about 10 years. I've always been a bulkier climber, but I felt really good at 5'6 and 150 lbs. 165 lbs is reasonable, but I especially notice my finger strength is not the same as it was at a lighter weight.