Yer gonna die myths

JaredGwrote:

Yeah, but YGD myths aren't things that absolutely can't happen, they're things that probably won't happen but people treat  them like they leave piles of bodies in their wake

Also consider, YGD myths aren't things that absolutely can't happen, they're things that probably won't happen but people treat them like they leave piles of bodies in their wake

Honestly, what is it with you, Kevin?

I always get a kick out of the PAS or static tether falls threads, you would think from reading those that if you get 3" of slack in your tether and fall that your spine will shoot out your asshole and your lifeless body will then rip the entire anchor and pull your partner to their death, in the real world I'd bet not a single person has been harmed by this, aid climbers take daisy falls pretty regularly which are way worse, and  I've seen someone take a fall with the bolt below their feet by a couple of feet and catch the quickdraw on their belay loop as they passed, brutally hard catch but no more damage than a bruise around the harness...

Party's over, thread police have outnumbered on-topic commenters. 

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

TRS with a microtrax will desheath your rope, with a rollnlock will cut your rope straight through. I guess the only safe way is to tend a clove hitch.

I am curious as to what could cause a microtrax to fail when TRS. However even Petzl now suggests that a micro traxion could be used as a primary TRS device. I guess I really just want to see Ryan @ HowNot2 break one on his drop tower.

Yoda Jedi Knightwrote:

TRS with a microtrax will desheath your rope, with a rollnlock will cut your rope straight through. I guess the only safe way is to tend a clove hitch.

I only TRS on a dufensitz for this reason

Grant Kleeveswrote:

I always get a kick out of the PAS or static tether falls threads, you would think from reading those that if you get 3" of slack in your tether and fall that your spine will shoot out your asshole and your lifeless body will then rip the entire anchor and pull your partner to their death, in the real world I'd bet not a single person has been harmed by this, aid climbers take daisy falls pretty regularly which are way worse, and  I've seen someone take a fall with the bolt below their feet by a couple of feet and catch the quickdraw on their belay loop as they passed, brutally hard catch but no more damage than a bruise around the harness...

I've done this while forgetting that I was in direct to a bolt and another time when clipping up on a sport route and my foot slipped. I can confirm that it was in fact A5 because I died.

Placing a nut as a 1st piece == instant super hardcore zippering ground fall death.

James Arnoldwrote:

Ha! That's pretty bizarre because on an AMGA rock guide course I took the lead guide for the course made fun of someone for not fully trusting their belay loop in a similar scenario... 

Were these guys SPIs or full blown certified? I would bet the former.

I thought about it and double checked and one is SPI but was _the_ prominent local guide and the other was an AMGA rock guide

Franck Veewrote:

Placing a nut as a 1st piece == instant super hardcore zippering ground fall death.

Yeah, it's certainly ideal to have a multidirectional piece among the first few pieces, but there are other ways to mitigate zippering (i.e. belayer standing near the wall) and sometimes a multidirectional piece just isn't available. Story time:

I've taken a quite a few beginners up Horseman, and the first piece I've found that you can reasonably place, is a nut which is not multidirectional--there isn't anything else available at that point. That's fine because a) the climbing at the bottom is very easy even for this being a 5.5, and b) there's a multidirectional piece a few feet later.

But, over a year or so of climbing this a few times and placing that piece, SO MANY PEOPLE have stepped in to "educate" me about how it's important that my first piece be multidirectional. One guy went so far as to YANK THE ROPE to try to zipper out the piece to demonstrate the danger. It took him four yanks, at increasing angles, to get the piece to zipper.

So at this point, I just "solo" that section to avoid hearing people's nonsense, and it works. I mean, I get that this can't really be called soloing because it's stupid easy and I'm all of 10 feet off the ground, but is it really safer for me to not put a piece in, than to put one in with zipper potential?

Another funny thing about that is that the first piece (also the crux piece) on Laurel a few climbs over is a micro cam that's not multidirectional: if you give it a downward tug, it works, but the slot is narrow so a sideways tug can twist it out. But despite climbing this probably more times than Horseman, I've never heard anyone mention that the piece isn't multidirectional, because it's a cam.

Darren Mabewrote:

FAME!

b**** please, you aren't old enough to remember FAME. do you have an older sister or something?

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

If people, in their outlier pedantry, insist upon ruining the fun of a thread, then I gotta find my irreverence and entertainment somewhere. 

For some of us, outlier pedantry is the fun of it.  Anyway, YGD myth: when lowering off the top of a sport route through two draws, the gates on the draws must be opposed.

David Kwrote:

You probably won't listen to what I'm about to say, but lots of people (including me) need to hear this regularly, so I'm going to just put it out there:

Correcting people pedantically doesn't make you look smarter.

The myth isn't that knots reduce MBS. The myth is that knots reducing MBS matters. If a 20kN MBS gets reduced to 10kN, that's still more than enough for almost anything we do regularly in climbing.

I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm sure you are smart enough to figure out what the person you were responding to meant, but you probably saw the opportunity to correct someone and jumped in without thinking it through fully. That's a very understandable mistake: I do that all the time. But it's a negative personality trait that I'm trying to work on. Instead of looking for places where people are wrong to correct them, I'm trying to understand people and look for where they might be right.

I realize I'm sort of jumping in to correct you here. ;) But I hope it helps.

You’re mostly right but I jumped in to be a smart/dumb ass.
edit: actually my real flaw was not reading the replies first. Many people also commented about “MBS reducing strength is a myth” is not a myth so my poor thunder was already stolen. 

Grant Kleeveswrote:

I always get a kick out of the PAS or static tether falls threads, you would think from reading those that if you get 3" of slack in your tether and fall that your spine will shoot out your asshole and your lifeless body will then rip the entire anchor and pull your partner to their death

I'd like you to know that this made my wife and I laugh our spines through our assholes.  Thank you.

slimwrote:

b**** please, you aren't old enough to remember FAME. do you have an older sister or something?

Haha Yes 3 older brothers but I remember the show in the 80s when I was a kid

Grant Kleeveswrote:

I always get a kick out of the PAS or static tether falls threads, you would think from reading those that if you get 3" of slack in your tether and fall that your spine will shoot out your asshole and your lifeless body will then rip the entire anchor and pull your partner to their death, in the real world I'd bet not a single person has been harmed by this, aid climbers take daisy falls pretty regularly which are way worse...

Preach!  I took a factor 1.5ish daisy fall onto a nut last time I went aid climbing (with a dynamic rope style adjustable daisy).  No harm done, though a sound emanated from my body I had never heard before due to the hard catch. 

Sam Skovgaardwrote:

Preach!  I took a factor 1.5ish daisy fall onto a nut last time I went aid climbing (with a dynamic rope style adjustable daisy).  No harm done, though a sound emanated from my body I had never heard before due to the hard catch. 

Speaking of which: if you're on an overhanging sport climb, hard catches with a few meters of rope out usually aren't dangerous. The danger of a hard catch is that you might hit the wall harder: if you're not in danger of hitting the wall, climbing-rated dynamic rope is plenty soft enough that you'll be fine, even if the belayer sits down to give you the hardest catch possible.

I find it particularly funny that people get all anxious about soft catches with sport climbing, and then those same people forget about soft catches completely when trad climbing. If anything, soft catches tend to be MORE important with trad climbing, as the climbs tend to be a bit lower angle!

This will likely be unpopular but simul-rapping.

It's two people who have each other on top rope, you don't need to tether together, the amount of weight on the rappel point is so heavy(and the rope so stretchy) that you can't zip your partner down even by standing on a ledge and jumping as hard as you could. There are two ways to die simul-rapping, rapping off the end of the rope(which is just as likely while single-rapping) or otherwise opening your gri-gri and doing a screaming fast rappel(or drop of your partner) until you hit a ledge or the ground.

Would you fully open your gri gri and drop your partner toproping? No? Then you should not in any sense be afraid of simul-rapping. 

Tie yer knots, yer not gonna die.

Eric Marxwrote:

This will likely be unpopular but simul-rapping.

It's two people who have each other on top rope, you don't need to tether together, the amount of weight on the rappel point is so heavy(and the rope so stretchy) that you can't zip your partner down even by standing on a ledge and jumping as hard as you could. There are two ways to die simul-rapping, rapping off the end of the rope(which is just as likely while single-rapping) or otherwise opening your gri-gri and doing a screaming fast rappel(or drop of your partner) until you hit a ledge or the ground.

Would you fully open your gri gri and drop your partner toproping? No? Then you should not in any sense be afraid of simul-rapping. 

Tie yer knots, yer not gonna die.

I’ve been zipped simul rappelling..

I'm sorry to hear that, why did your partner panic-open their gri-gri?

Edit: My second question is, are you alive or are you messaging from the grave? Tie yer knots, yer not gunna die   

Eric Marxwrote:

I'm sorry to hear that, why did your partner panic-open their gri-gri?

Edit: My second question is, are you alive or are you messaging from the grave? Tie yer knots, yer not gunna die   

No grigri opening. The rope ran through the rings - my partner weighs significantly less than me so I pulled her up while I fell down. And yes, I’m now one with the Force