Pets at the Crag - Thoughts/Storytime/Discussion

I think the fact that it’s a cat is nearly irrelevant. If that’s an issue for a dog, then so will be another dog or human or any other animal.

dogs and cats are the best!

They shouldn’t be at the crag. It comes down to not being able to share the space properly, and to someone valuing their own experience over others.

For the very very few that are super thoughtful about their crag pets, sorry, you’re in the minority. That ship has long since sailed. 

and unleashed pets just might be some of the worst crag etiquette there is. Worse than non consensual Bluetooth speakers, or screaming out beta all day for sure. 

pets at home

if not, on a leash

i couldn’t read that all but did i miss the part where you murdered their dog to protect your pet? 

angry on your behalf. 

petzl logicwrote:if not, on a leash

... and if someone has a big-ass unruly dog that takes a lot of effort to restrain on a leash, LITFH. Even if it's technically on a leash, I don't want to worry about it overpowering its owner and wreaking havoc.

I work at an animal hospice ranch, eat mostly vegetarian, have a very compassionate heart, et shitera....

... But in the future if I had a child and were teaching her to climb one day, and some leashed big dog were to jump up and be A Very Friendly Good Boy at her, I would curbstomp the ever-living shit out of the dog, and then sue the ever-living shit out of the owner.

The only reason I wouldn't reverse the direct objects of those verbs is for fear of losing my license in this litigious society of coddled dumbasses raised by an entitled nanny state with a failed public education system. (No slight to current educators, I used to be one and know you have your hands tied).

(haha, this is what happens when you take a tolerance break from caffeine and then drink your first espresso! Brings out the inchoate rage and qwerty gatling gun!)

F r i t zwrote:

Dang, this issue really got your goat.

Just last night I was the one with the trowl and TP wondering how much I needed to worry about the next door car campers Very Good Boy, who was, of course, off leash and barking at everything.

Even two years ago, threads like this were dominated by the self-entitled and delusional "good boy" dog owners. Either they are tired of arguing their point, or they've actually come around and realized that their dog really can be a problem. I am hoping it is the second. I wonder what has changed? Crowds?

Personally, I HATE uncontrolled dogs. If your dog attacks me or mine, I will cut its fucking throat. No bullshit. I grew up in Tanzania, where I always had to carry a big stick to keep the stray dogs at bay. Keep your  dog under control.

We are not terrible people. love is blind and we are in love. We have also backed ourselves into a corner. We have to somehow learn how to Ballance life after taking on this relentless responsibility and most of us are not perfect at it. The person who actively threatens every unleashed dog  and their owner that they encounter is an arrogant asshat and the human version of that aggressively barking dog they despise.  I get carrying the bear spray in case you need it. I occasionally do the same thing  but I don't reprimand anyone or threaten them unless they threaten me first. walk softly and carry your stick. 

There are far, far too many dogs at the crags. Please leave your dog at home. It’s a simple courtesy.

LL2wrote:

Even two years ago, threads like this were dominated by the self-entitled and delusional "good boy" dog owners. Either they are tired of arguing their point, or they've actually come around and realized that their dog really can be a problem. I am hoping it is the second. I wonder what has changed? Crowds?

Agreed it’s oddly quiet here but definitely not at the crags

I’ve had two off-leash dogs charge me at crags, one biting into and tearing my pack which I held in front of me as a shield, and both times the owner said something akin to, “we didn’t think anyone else would be here,” or “they’re not usually like that.” 

So, as someone whom has previously been a victim of a dog attack that nearly ended my climbing career (hand/finger injuries), I am fully willing to act in self-defence and I will bear-spray a dog. I won’t threaten the owner, I’ll just do it. Sorry, but not sorry.

I grew up with dogs, I like dogs, I had one (a very good and tender old dog) as an adult, and I don’t think any domesticated animal should be taken to a crag for all the aforementioned risks, but at the very least, leash your animal no matter how much training you purport it to have.

Alright, I admit it... I was triggered... too many bad experiences with vicious dogs.

Will , that is Not what you posted. you said that when you see an unleashed dog you lecture the owners and threaten to bear spray them. Now you're trying to take that back and spin it. you even went back and edited your OP. Yes that sort of behavior would be arrogant, aggressive and just as bad as an aggressive dog. Even your rebuttal is right on par for the barking aggressive dog award.

Personally when I see an off leash dog I ignore it unless it's really cute. If it gets in my business I ignore it and give the owner a rollie eye look unless its really cool. I am very picky about what kinds of dogs I think are really cool. If it aggressively charges me I give it my best Sensei command voice which has on a few occasions came out as YOU WNNA FUCKING DIE while adopting  a fighting stance . I have never had it go past that. These days I am a bit more mellow and the command is STOP< THAT IS NOT FUCKING COOL . Followed by a polite lecture to the owners.

Notice I did not ask that people leave their pets at home. I don't mind crag dogs as long as they are under control. Crag cats? That's next level. Kinda neat, as long as the cat doesn't object.

I like dogs a lot, but don’t appreciate them at the crag, especially unleashed. A couple years ago my partner was attacked by a dog while we were backcountry skiing near Tahoe. The owner fled with her two out of control dogs before we realized my partner was bleeding in the back of her knee. So we had to go through the decision about whether she should get rabies shots or not. Plus torn ski pants. I don’t discourage anyone from carrying bear spray for dogs.

edit - Want to add that in addition to the co-pay for the 4 stitches my partner received, she also had to pay for her clothing repairs. She decided to not get the painful series of rabies shots. The Barton ER staff said rabies is not common, but it is fatal, so it would have been helpful if they could have observed the dog that bit her. Within 5 minutes of filling out the report at the hospital, S Lake Tahoe Animal Control called us to get info and try identify the dogs. Animal Control said dog bites are extremely common in Tahoe, especially for people breaking up dog fights. The way the owner reacted and instantly ran away, I'm guessing her dogs had some prior history of attacking people. It all happened so quickly and our first concern was to escape the dogs. I recommend to anyone being bitten to photograph both the dog(s) and owner, rather than expect the dog owner to act responsibly.  I wish we had thought to do this.

Will, it came across as you warning every unleashed dog owner that you encounter in NF and lecturing them. Thats how it read. I have zero problem with folks defending themselves.  I really detest people who act tough and flaunt their right to defend themselves. That don't tread on me flag triggers me. As near as I can tell these days that flag means I am looking for an excuse to shoot someone. 

 Even if they are on leash if they are pulling at the leash and barking that is super not cool. I don't threaten you so what gives you the right to bring a dog out in public that is aggressive and threatens me.  If Bernie had turned out to be aggressive he would have gone straight back to the pound. Done. 

With all these crag cats and crag dogs, how is my crag chicken supposed to survive?

I carry a machete pretty regularly. It is super sharp. My intention is to use it for crag approach maintenance, but also for protection. I would HATE to have to use it on a mountain lion or bear (I'm often by myself in wilderness), but I would use it on a big crazy dog with no regrets. I have been accosted by dogs (shepherd, shepherd, doberman) at least 3 times in my long climbing career.

bernard wolfewrote:

seems like i remember reading a story about a pet monkey.............

Yeah I met that guy. It was quite a while ago and the monkey was a handful.