any devices made FOR top rope solo?

Desert Rock Sportswrote:

No devices actually made for TR solo.

Whats the croll made for then? Whats TR soloing anyways....you mean ascending a rope?

abe rwrote: ...you mean ascending a rope?

Thats a great point. In that respect, there are a lot of TRS devices. Side note, I always wondered why Camp called their basic ascender the Camp Solo.

So I got my hands on a Camp Turbolock.

It's a very cool device, but I think of it more as an improvement on a Petzl Pro Traxion--same size pulley, has a beckett hole, etc. It's lighter and smaller than a Pro Traxion and I think more elegant. Also no chance of the device opening up like the Pro Traxion (at least the old version).

I'm going to try it with my Taz Lov 3 for TRS, but I think the disadvantages are a) it is significantly heavier than a micro traxion and b) the rope can certainly disengage the cam, I think far more easily than an MT. The rope basically runs over the lockout lever when set up for TRS. As for whether this actually happens in practice with a Taz above it--hard to say. Disabling the cam lockout or making the button smaller seem like potential options. It does have even less friction moving up the rope than an MT, which is cool.

There are devices made for this, they are heavily tested and approved by industry under the EN 353-2 standard, the petzl ASAP among others fit in this category. As long as you use a certified rope to go along with it you're golden, so golden that in industry its perfectly acceptable that it is your primary device (no backup needed). 

Camp lift on top, no teeth, microT as backup, seems to work pretty well if you want to save $$$. Nowhere near as cool as Taz backed by microT tho. 

Grandwall uAscend is very similar to the Lift but feeds easier because the spring is not as strong so it causes less friction. About the same price via: verticallstore.com/GRANDWAL… $58.95 ca ($45.62 us)

Noel Z, did you get around to reevaluating the "Roll'N'Lock collecting dust in the back of a drawer" when paired with the Grivel Clepsydra S?  I ask because these devices are superficially similar.

Mike JF wrote:

I just use a gri gri haha

This is probably heresy to say, but I had a neighbor and friend of mine in Yosemite, fantastic climber. All of the routes he could set up TRS he would just climb with a grigri or microt and no backup and hes still out crushing it. My point being, be as a safe as possible always, but used/inspected properly the devices we already have are pretty damn bomb at least in terms of TRS. If you wanna get into LRS, that is a different story.

From the instruction manual for the older version (Petzl B08) of their Basic Ascender. A couple years ago they changed the design so it's more like the Croll, and AFAIK Petzl doesn't condone its use for TRS.  On the bright side, you can still buy the same type of device from Climbing Technology (CT) and other manufacturers. It's been my main device for >20 years.

Sorry to practice some necromancy here...

Got my hands on a CAMP Turbolock. In TR Solo application there is a pretty easy to replicate failure mode which would happen if the pulley side got trapped/pushed down low while vertical progress is made or rope is pulled through. IE slab, roof pull, beach whale, etc...

Pulley side restricted, note lockout button touched:

Lockout button engaged due to vertical movement while pulley side restricted:

Locked out:

Potential janky "fix" is to have a chest harness to keep pulley end higher than carabiner end so rope wouldn't move to touch button... but would put a bend in rope making it feed not quite as smooth.

Elastic as above would not be sufficient. Even a chest harness may not fully be able to prevent this failure mode if one were to do enough of a crunch / forward bend...

So I'd absolutely not recommend it for TRS unless you file off the lockout catch or otherwise prevent it from being able to be locked out. I personally think that a slim 3D printed then sintered metal powder insert that prevents depression of the lockout button with magnet to retain its installationin the cam (assuming magnetic metal of the cam) could be cool.

Have vids, but a pain to try to upload and share them without making an account somewhere and I think the pics are sufficient explanation of the failure mode.

Potential mod to "fix" would be to add a metal rod in the location of the sharpie dot, such that neither cam function nor button function is restricted. The post would prevent the rope from touching the button, but would be a surface that the rope would rub against adding friction. A pin and rolling sleeve setup could improve that, but now your getting into quite of bit of engineering when there are other devices without this issue.

Edit: or the obvious solution to file off the catch, but then you lose nice functionality for hauling.

An oval (and probably several other viable setups with cord and a suitable piece of metal tubing or something) can be used to prevent the rope from being able to touch the cam. Kinda janky.

Cam is stainless. TIG tack welding on a stainless tab of metal to the cam inself to act as a guard would be an option. Plastic button may melt though lol. I guess you could also drill and tap very small holes in the cam and screw on a similar guard tab. Or TIG an aluminum guard to the side plate that the cam is mounted to.

I TR solo with a taz lov 2 and backed up with a microtraxion. Feels like a pretty perfect device and setup to me. Easy to setup, easy to transition to rappel (just remove trax), feeds smooth, and no teeth on the primary device biting the rope. Lots of systems out there, but I like this setup over others ive used (2 microtraxions, microtraxion and ascender, grigri with knots).

Steven Rwrote:

I TR solo with a taz lov 2 and backed up with a microtraxion. Feels like a pretty perfect device and setup to me. Easy to setup, easy to transition to rappel (just remove trax), feeds smooth, and no teeth on the primary device biting the rope. Lots of systems out there, but I like this setup over others ive used (2 microtraxions, microtraxion and ascender, grigri with knots).

Once you go Taz you never go back. The Lov is the undisputed king of TRS and a top contender alongside the SP and Revo for best LRS devices. 

Travis O'Neilwrote:

Potential mod to "fix" would be to add a metal rod in the location of the sharpie dot, such that neither cam function nor button function is restricted. The post would prevent the rope from touching the button, but would be a surface that the rope would rub against adding friction. A pin and rolling sleeve setup could improve that, but now your getting into quite of bit of engineering when there are other devices without this issue.

Edit: or the obvious solution to file off the catch, but then you lose nice functionality for hauling.

No engineering is necessary. The cam is hooked, so simply wrap a thin cord or cable around the back and tie it through the becket hole. If you want more peace of mind, use the small hole at the end of the cam to create a more foolproof connection. Pictured below.null

You can also use roughly the same sized cord to simply wrap the stem of the buttom up tightly. This won't keep it from being disengaged by certain rope angles, but it will keep it from locking into the disengaged position

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Once you go Taz you never go back. The Lov is the undisputed king of TRS and a top contender alongside the SP and Revo for best LRS devices. 

LRS with the Taz? That’s interesting. Is there a discussion on this already on the forums?

Phil Sakievichwrote:

LRS with the Taz? That’s interesting. Is there a discussion on this already on the forums?

Don't think so, it's a Yann Camus creation to use it for LRS so it exist in the Camus-iverse on his LRS group on Facebook. I use a Revo as a backup. I could create a thread discussing it if you like. It's a marvelous LRS device. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

Don't think so, it's a Yann Camus creation to use it for LRS so it exist in the Camus-iverse on his LRS group on Facebook. I use a Revo as a backup. I could create a thread discussing it if you like. It's a marvelous LRS device. 

Any rope faff or is it essentially self-managing?

J Ewrote:

No engineering is necessary. The cam is hooked, so simply wrap a thin cord or cable around the back and tie it through the becket hole. If you want more peace of mind, use the small hole at the end of the cam to create a more foolproof connection. Pictured below.

picture

You can also use roughly the same sized cord to simply wrap the stem of the buttom up tightly. This won't keep it from being disengaged by certain rope angles, but it will keep it from locking into the disengaged position

Those are both clever removable solutions to prevent the lockout button. Shame that you would have to remove them to be able to use the lockout function again.