overheard at the crag: post it

phylp phylpwrote:

?  Or anyone who’s ever taken a math class and is describing a well-defined group of objects? {.5, 1, 2, 3, etc}.

Using lingo from other domains in climbing still sounds weird and makes you look like a Gumby even if it makes sense. The problem with "set" isn't that it isn't coherent, it's that I don't want to climb with anyone who doesn't know the basic jargon as I'd be scared what else they don't know. 

Ryan Kellywrote:

"we took a single set on the Nose and it was too much gear"

The only time I’ve heard “set” in terms of gear is a set of passive gear (wires/stoppers/hexes).

Getting of topic here but why is that? When we talk about cams is almost always rack. But then when I hear passive pro it’s set? Have I been watching too many JB Mountain Skills YT videos?

Mitch Steinerwrote:

The only time I’ve heard “set” in terms of gear is a set of passive gear (wires/stoppers/hexes).

Getting of topic here but why is that? When we talk about cams is almost always rack. But then when I hear passive pro it’s set? Have I been watching too many JB Mountain Skills YT videos?

I think set is used when talking about the grouping off the rack, and could be used to talk about a size range of cams, too.

“I have a set of cams from fingers to fists, and a set of offset nuts, and I used them all on my rack this weekend.”

I think we have all starting defaulting to “rack” when talking about a group of cams in general, but I wouldn’t find it weird if someone referred to cams in that way 

Ryan Kellywrote:

"we took a single set on the Nose and it was too much gear"

https://youtu.be/2cis-fnK5Zo

"you did that 3 pitch climb over there? Did you link all the pitches into one? That's the best way"

We only climb in a push or free solo, lol

Ricky Harlinewrote:

well now I'm curious who the person is that climbs The Nose and uses the noun "set" in reference to gear. Was this a Euro or someone who doesn't speak English as their first language or some punter pretending to have climbed the nose or ...?

Mitch Steinerwrote:

The only time I’ve heard “set” in terms of gear is a set of passive gear (wires/stoppers/hexes).

Getting of topic here but why is that? When we talk about cams is almost always rack. But then when I hear passive pro it’s set? Have I been watching too many JB Mountain Skills YT videos?

Are you guys total newbies? Take a look at these search results:

https://www.mountainproject.com/search?q=set%20of%20cams

Or this: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/friend-set-0-4--0-5--0-75-40-friendset4

Marc801 Cwrote:

Are you guys total newbies? Take a look at these search results:

https://www.mountainproject.com/search?q=set%20of%20cams

Or this: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/friend-set-0-4--0-5--0-75-40-friendset4

I am most decidedly a total punter but I climb LRS trad and punted around on a failed El Cap attempt a couple weeks ago, so I think I can pretty safely assert that I am not a total newbie. I read about climbing a lot and talk about climbing a lot with an awful lot of people and also actually climb a fair bit too, and have never heard anyone say "set" instead of "rack." The search term I don't think proves your point at all. "Set" is quite unspecific and could be any quantity or grouping of cams, so in the context of these images it makes sense to use-- all of these images are of sets which are less than a full rack, so some other word other than "rack" makes sense to use. 

However, a "set" of cams could be a bunch of cams between 3s and 5s. It could be a quadruple rack. It could be only fingers size pieces. Those are all sets of cams. So why on earth would you want to use such a vague term? You had a set of cams on The Nose? OK, is that a double rack or what exactly is that? I have no idea, because it's an extremely vague word that doesn't do the job we ask words to do, which is communicating information. If you say "set of cams" with no other contextual information provided (such as a photo) to inform me of what the hell you're talking about I will assume you are either translating directly from another language or that you're even more of a punter than I am. 

Ricky Harlinewrote:

I am most decidedly a total punter but I climb LRS trad and punted around on a failed El Cap attempt a couple weeks ago, so I think I can pretty safely assert that I am not a total newbie. I read about climbing a lot and talk about climbing a lot with an awful lot of people and also actually climb a fair bit too, and have never heard anyone say "set" instead of "rack." The search term I don't think proves your point at all. "Set" is quite unspecific and could be any quantity or grouping of cams, so in the context of these images it makes sense to use-- all of these images are of sets which are less than a full rack, so some other word other than "rack" makes sense to use. 

However, a "set" of cams could be a bunch of cams between 3s and 5s. It could be a quadruple rack. It could be only fingers size pieces. Those are all sets of cams. So why on earth would you want to use such a vague term? You had a set of cams on The Nose? OK, is that a double rack or what exactly is that? I have no idea, because it's an extremely vague word that doesn't do the job we ask words to do, which is communicating information. If you say "set of cams" with no other contextual information provided (such as a photo) to inform me of what the hell you're talking about I will assume you are either translating directly from another language or that you're even more of a punter than I am. 

Hypothetically, and entirely for the sake of argument, if we were going climbing and I said to you “I’ll bring the rack”, what would you understand from this?

If instead I said “I’ll bring one set of cams”, isn’t that actually clearer?

anonymous cowardwrote:

Hypothetically, and entirely for the sake of argument, if we were going climbing and I said to you “I’ll bring the rack”, what would you understand from this?

If instead I said “I’ll bring one set of cams”, isn’t that actually clearer?

But no one does that. Commonly heard would be... "Let's both bring a single rack and we'll be set." No one says... "Let's both bring a single set and we'll be good."

anonymous cowardwrote:

Hypothetically, and entirely for the sake of argument, if we were going climbing and I said to you “I’ll bring the rack”, what would you understand from this?

If instead I said “I’ll bring one set of cams”, isn’t that actually clearer?

Sure, but you've phrased "rack" in an intentionally vague way. In my experience people will talk about a single or double racks. "I'll bring a rack of Totems, and should I bring the rack of Dragons or do you want to bring your rack of C4s?" 

I mean to be clear maybe many people say it and for whatever reason the diverse array of people I have climbed with don't use that language. That's the whole reason why it's dangerous to come to conclusions about societal phenomenon based on personal experience, right? But my personal experience definitely leads me to think people using such language are probably gumbies.  

 Edit to add: I hit the post limit, but people seem to not be understanding my position is this showdown of pedantry. In the example of Chris Mac extra information is provided to clarify what the fuck the "set" is. If you use the word loosely the way people do with "rack" then it's extremely unclear. Saying the word set makes a lot of sense if you then explain what the hell it is -such as a set of hands pieces- it makes very little sense and is extremely confusing if you just talk about the time you were on The Nose with a set.

Holy pedantic jesus…this really is not hard. If I go to Indian Creek, I’m bringing eight “sets” of cams. However, when I start up an actual route, I’m carrying the appropriate “rack” for the route. Clear?

Set of cams is a super common phrase. "Set of offsets", "set of Totems", "set of fingers", "set of hands", etc.
A set doesn't have 2 of them same item. It's literally the definition. I would be extremely confused if somebody said they were bringing a set of cams and brought anything other than 1 of each.

I guess Chris Mac was gumby:

Clear?

Hah, not to this crew. Most don't even know the definition of trad, much less a set of cams to protect the trad climbing.

I’m sure you’re right but I think “rack” has more than one use in this context. If I say “I’ll bring the rack and you bring the rope” it’s inclusive of all the protection and I think is a common statement.

Clearly it’s a pedantic argument and I’m probably a Gumby but I do think that both terms have potential uses. It would be weird to say “I have one and a half racks of totems” and seems more natural to say “ I have one and a half sets of totems”

Obviously if you primarily speak another language it will be even less natural.

Edit: others got there first.   

Deers have racks and bands have sets. Hope that helps everyone

Set it and forget it. Or pull on the cam a few times and risk whatever comes.

God damn, people have the dumbest arguments on the internet. 

Patrick Lwrote:

God damn, people have the dumbest arguments on the internet. 

I disagree with you

Trad climbing is dumb anyway #boltElCap

#bringSETback

Fucking lol, nice work guys