overheard at the crag: post it

My three year old:

“I have jalapeño up my nose” 

Signed my kitchen, reading mp 

Me to climber coming back from 5.11a on adjoining wall: "How'd that route go?"

Climber: "Ah, we didn't do it. Definite decking potential after the second bolt, and this is her first time belaying." 

<ten minutes later, climber reaches anchors of 5.10b>

Climber's belayer, standing 15 feet back from base of climb, right hand wrapped around gri-gri: "So I just pull this lever back to let you down?" 

BROS - DON'T TEACH YOUR CRUSH/GF HOW TO BELAY *AT THE CRAG* ON THE FLY. I felt like I should've taken her aside like there are signs of domestic abuse: "Do you feel safe? Do you need help?" 

J P wrote:

Me to climber coming back from 5.11a on adjoining wall: "How'd that route go?"

Climber: "Ah, we didn't do it. Definite decking potential after the second bolt, and this is her first time belaying." 

Climber's belayer, standing 15 feet back from base of climb, right hand wrapped around gri-gri: "So I just pull this lever back to let you down?" 

BROS - DON'T TEACH YOUR CRUSH/GF HOW TO BELAY *AT THE CRAG* ON THE FLY. I felt like I should've taken her aside like there are signs of domestic abuse: "Do you feel safe? Do you need help?" 

I think this could be potentially fine but it sounds like broski was doing a pretty terrible job of instructing. If doing this you need to be watching and instructing your belayer basically the whole time for a few routes. I've taught multiple people to lead belay (granted unlike this person they already knew how to TR belay) just like this and it's been fine. I think there are multiple problems synergizing to make maximum problemage going on here. If one is learning how to belay completely from scratch then learning how to lead belay first isn't necessarily a problem, but I would have them backed up to a second belayer for such a situation and I don't think not having someone on the ground to at least watch them is a good idea in such a situation.

Ricky Harline wrote:

 I would have them backed up to a second belayer for such a situation and I don't think not having someone on the ground to at least watch them is a good idea in such a situation.

Totally agree - to me the main egregious part was not having a 3rd person around for instruction/oversight. But also the fact he was willing to toss his partner into it on what seemed to be a project route for him... yikes!

Isaiah aka Zay Foulks wrote:

Scene: Pinnacles National Park.

Crag: Discovery Wall.

Route: The Big Pucker (5.10d/11a)

Shirtless dude at the base, no helmet, smoking a cigarette, and halfway through his second tall can of Mike's Hard Lemonade... Younger pair of climbers - guy and girl - walk by and strike up a friendly conversation.

It's their first time sport climbing outside of the gym. Climbing at Pinnacles has been "eye opening." They are shocked to see the smoker donning cams and tricams on his harness - unable to believe that anyone could trust them here - and ask about how tricams work, to which the guy happily gives a tutorial, and rambles on and on about how great Pinnacles is, despite its infamy.

After a long and happy exchange, the stranger finishes his drink and his cigarette, picks up the sharp end and says as he starts tying in,

."Well guys, I better lead this thing before I get too drunk!"

Not exactly a model citizen, but very friendly, and he did send.

Wait a minute. Is this you:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/122592851/lets-burn-some-bridges 

Pinnacles, ✅
Mikes hard lemonade ✅
in a tall can✅
Cigarette, ✅
Shirt, on. So no check But it is nighttime…

tobias bundle wrote:

Wait a minute. Is this you:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/122592851/lets-burn-some-bridges 

Pinnacles, ✅
Mikes hard lemonade ✅
in a tall can✅
Cigarette, ✅
Shirt, on. So no check But it is nighttime…

Are you suggesting that he overheard himself?

tobias bundle wrote:

Wait a minute. Is this you:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/122592851/lets-burn-some-bridges 

Pinnacles, ✅
Mikes hard lemonade ✅
in a tall can✅
Cigarette, ✅
Shirt, on. So no check But it is nighttime…

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/message/122585029

Matt Wetmore wrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/message/122585029

Dang. Case closed. I should pay more attention to mp shitposting I guess. 

"we took a single set on the Nose and it was too much gear"

Ryan Kelly wrote:

a single set 

well now I'm curious who the person is that climbs The Nose and uses the noun "set" in reference to gear. Was this a Euro or someone who doesn't speak English as their first language or some punter pretending to have climbed the nose or ...?

Maybe the nose of Looking Glass?

Ricky Harline wrote:

well now I'm curious who the person is that climbs The Nose and uses the noun "set" in reference to gear. Was this a Euro or someone who doesn't speak English as their first language or some punter pretending to have climbed the nose or ...?

?  Or anyone who’s ever taken a math class and is describing a well-defined group of objects? {.5, 1, 2, 3, etc}.

phylp phylp wrote:

?  Or anyone who’s ever taken a math class and is describing a well-defined group of objects? {.5, 1, 2, 3, etc}.

Using lingo from other domains in climbing still sounds weird and makes you look like a Gumby even if it makes sense. The problem with "set" isn't that it isn't coherent, it's that I don't want to climb with anyone who doesn't know the basic jargon as I'd be scared what else they don't know. 

Ryan Kelly wrote:

"we took a single set on the Nose and it was too much gear"

The only time I’ve heard “set” in terms of gear is a set of passive gear (wires/stoppers/hexes).

Getting of topic here but why is that? When we talk about cams is almost always rack. But then when I hear passive pro it’s set? Have I been watching too many JB Mountain Skills YT videos?

Mitch Steiner wrote:

The only time I’ve heard “set” in terms of gear is a set of passive gear (wires/stoppers/hexes).

Getting of topic here but why is that? When we talk about cams is almost always rack. But then when I hear passive pro it’s set? Have I been watching too many JB Mountain Skills YT videos?

I think set is used when talking about the grouping off the rack, and could be used to talk about a size range of cams, too.

“I have a set of cams from fingers to fists, and a set of offset nuts, and I used them all on my rack this weekend.”

I think we have all starting defaulting to “rack” when talking about a group of cams in general, but I wouldn’t find it weird if someone referred to cams in that way 

Ryan Kelly wrote:

"we took a single set on the Nose and it was too much gear"

https://youtu.be/2cis-fnK5Zo

"you did that 3 pitch climb over there? Did you link all the pitches into one? That's the best way"

We only climb in a push or free solo, lol

Ricky Harline wrote:

well now I'm curious who the person is that climbs The Nose and uses the noun "set" in reference to gear. Was this a Euro or someone who doesn't speak English as their first language or some punter pretending to have climbed the nose or ...?

Mitch Steiner wrote:

The only time I’ve heard “set” in terms of gear is a set of passive gear (wires/stoppers/hexes).

Getting of topic here but why is that? When we talk about cams is almost always rack. But then when I hear passive pro it’s set? Have I been watching too many JB Mountain Skills YT videos?

Are you guys total newbies? Take a look at these search results:

https://www.mountainproject.com/search?q=set%20of%20cams

Or this: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/friend-set-0-4--0-5--0-75-40-friendset4

Marc801 C wrote:

Are you guys total newbies? Take a look at these search results:

https://www.mountainproject.com/search?q=set%20of%20cams

Or this: https://www.wildcountry.com/en-us/friend-set-0-4--0-5--0-75-40-friendset4

I am most decidedly a total punter but I climb LRS trad and punted around on a failed El Cap attempt a couple weeks ago, so I think I can pretty safely assert that I am not a total newbie. I read about climbing a lot and talk about climbing a lot with an awful lot of people and also actually climb a fair bit too, and have never heard anyone say "set" instead of "rack." The search term I don't think proves your point at all. "Set" is quite unspecific and could be any quantity or grouping of cams, so in the context of these images it makes sense to use-- all of these images are of sets which are less than a full rack, so some other word other than "rack" makes sense to use. 

However, a "set" of cams could be a bunch of cams between 3s and 5s. It could be a quadruple rack. It could be only fingers size pieces. Those are all sets of cams. So why on earth would you want to use such a vague term? You had a set of cams on The Nose? OK, is that a double rack or what exactly is that? I have no idea, because it's an extremely vague word that doesn't do the job we ask words to do, which is communicating information. If you say "set of cams" with no other contextual information provided (such as a photo) to inform me of what the hell you're talking about I will assume you are either translating directly from another language or that you're even more of a punter than I am. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

I am most decidedly a total punter but I climb LRS trad and punted around on a failed El Cap attempt a couple weeks ago, so I think I can pretty safely assert that I am not a total newbie. I read about climbing a lot and talk about climbing a lot with an awful lot of people and also actually climb a fair bit too, and have never heard anyone say "set" instead of "rack." The search term I don't think proves your point at all. "Set" is quite unspecific and could be any quantity or grouping of cams, so in the context of these images it makes sense to use-- all of these images are of sets which are less than a full rack, so some other word other than "rack" makes sense to use. 

However, a "set" of cams could be a bunch of cams between 3s and 5s. It could be a quadruple rack. It could be only fingers size pieces. Those are all sets of cams. So why on earth would you want to use such a vague term? You had a set of cams on The Nose? OK, is that a double rack or what exactly is that? I have no idea, because it's an extremely vague word that doesn't do the job we ask words to do, which is communicating information. If you say "set of cams" with no other contextual information provided (such as a photo) to inform me of what the hell you're talking about I will assume you are either translating directly from another language or that you're even more of a punter than I am. 

Hypothetically, and entirely for the sake of argument, if we were going climbing and I said to you “I’ll bring the rack”, what would you understand from this?

If instead I said “I’ll bring one set of cams”, isn’t that actually clearer?