What is the best 5.11 in the United States?

I'm glad to see that Legacy and Aesthetica at the New made that list....Another that I really like in that area is Discombobulated (it's right next to Legacy) 

Drifting 

Drifting in Red Rock is amazing. Butterballs is a real good pitch as well.

The full pitch of japenese gardens would be my vote. Just so unbelievably good.

Dave Vaughanwrote:

1. Astroman 2. Rostrum 3. Positive Vibes 4. D7 5. Shunes Buttress

I have no objections to this list. I think it’s important to throw a desert tower in there too.

Primrose Dihedrals or Monster Tower are probably at the top, however neither one have very much 5.11 on them.

Leave it to Jesus 

Joe Huntwrote:

Glad to see these three on the list:

The Rostrum, The Vampire, and Coarse and Buggy

Astroman has to be right up there. One classic pitch after another, and with more variety than a lot of multi-pitch granite climbs.

Boulder Problem, Endurance Corner, Harding Slot, Changing Corners, and that (not granite) last pitch. Each a unique experience, with classic easier pitches in between, all on perfect stone.

Then there's history. Astroman doesn't come up short there.

The setting should factor in as well. Astroman has it all...

I can't figure how Coarse and Buggy even make's an honorable mention on a list of "best in the U.S." It's not even the best in Josh, by a long shot. Joshua Tree is a tough neighborhood in the 5.11 range, which is, in my opinion, the grade which is home to many of the best climbs in the park. Middle Age Crazy? Spider Line? Such a Savage? Hot Rocks? To mention a few. And I don't think any of those make the "Best in U.S." list. But then I'd say that multi-pitch has to be part of the minimum standard for best 5.11.

I know, that gives sport climbs the short shrift. 5.11 sport climbs that is. If this topic was about cutting edge grades, it would be a horse of a different color. 

Vampire could make the short list, but it's kind of a two move wonder with an athletic first pitch. Spectacular, and very satisfying though. Maybe put it on the short list for "Best in SoCal?"

I wouldn't put the first pitch of japanese gardens near the top. It's pretty good, but a bunch of easy climbing to the top of a flake (bivy here...), then 30 feet of good climbing. There are probably 300 5.11s at the creek that are better. Sinestra for example is a full star better.

If mentioning Astroman and the Rostrum, you’ll have to throw Karakoram Highway in there as a close third as it’s basically like throwing the Rostrum on top of Astroman. Just a little dirty in spots. 

Kristian Solemwrote:

Astroman has to be right up there. One classic pitch after another, and with more variety than a lot of multi-pitch granite climbs.

Boulder Problem, Endurance Corner, Harding Slot, Changing Corners, and that (not granite) last pitch. Each a unique experience, with classic easier pitches in between, all on perfect stone.

Then there's history. Astroman doesn't come up short there

 I've never climbed astroman - and I'm  a bit spooked about that last pitch - it's really the one thing keeping me from trying. Is it really as f*cked as I hear? 

Adam Macwrote:

No. It’s a few moves to a good stance under a rotten block. You can nest gear under it. It’s not the best, but if you take your time you can make a decent equalized anchor. Then it’s a few thin moves past the block and lightens up from there. Looks scary, but every move keeps getting bigger and easier as you climb higher. You finish runnout, but on jugs. It’s been climbed so much, the grainy rock factor is almost gone. That pitch should be the least of your worries.

I've done at least 29 of the routes in the MP top 50 including nearly all the multi-pitch. (Positive Vibrations and High Plains Drifter are my big omissions.) 

For my money, Astroman is easily the most mega route of those I've done on the list. It has individual pitches that are better than Coarse and Buggy or Sinestra and it's way more intense than The Rostrum.

I should have said it was "fun" to see Coarse and Buggy on the list. Glad to see the The Rostrum at the top of the list. 

Kristian Solemwrote:

Astroman has to be right up there. One classic pitch after another, and with more variety than a lot of multi-pitch granite climbs.

Boulder Problem, Endurance Corner, Harding Slot, Changing Corners, and that (not granite) last pitch. Each a unique experience, with classic easier pitches in between, all on perfect stone.

Then there's history. Astroman doesn't come up short there.

The setting should factor in as well. Astroman has it all...

I can't figure how Coarse and Buggy even make's an honorable mention on a list of "best in the U.S." It's not even the best in Josh, by a long shot. Joshua Tree is a tough neighborhood in the 5.11 range, which is, in my opinion, the grade which is home to many of the best climbs in the park. Middle Age Crazy? Spider Line? Such a Savage? Hot Rocks? To mention a few. And I don't think any of those make the "Best in U.S." list. But then I'd say that multi-pitch has to be part of the minimum standard for best 5.11.

I know, that gives sport climbs the short shrift. 5.11 sport climbs that is. If this topic was about cutting edge grades, it would be a horse of a different color. 

Vampire could make the short list, but it's kind of a two move wonder with an athletic first pitch. Spectacular, and very satisfying though. Maybe put it on the short list for "Best in SoCal?"

Atlantis in the Needles is way cool, along with Abracadaber in Cochise.

I don't have the experience of many of you that are voicing opinions here, but I have done more than a half dozen that appear on that top 50 list.  This is what strikes me: When I look at the ones I've done and then ask myself, was that the BEST 5.11 I did in that area, I find that I can't decide because there are typically so many other great ones not that far away.   I mean, once you're in Yosemite Valley, or Joshua Tree, or Red Rock, or City of Rocks, or the ORG, or Donner Summit and you do the routes from those places on that list, you are practicallyor literally within walking distance to dozens of other amazing routes.  (OK, Space Walk/Eagle Lake isn't at Donner Summit but it's a reasonable short drive from Emerald Bay to the Summit and all those amazing cracks at Snowshed).  

So if you don't live near these places like I do, just pick a place that suits your preferred climbing style and make a pilgrimage.  Stay for a couple of weeks if you can.  At some of these places, you still won't scratch the surface.

ryan alberywrote:

Atlantis in the Needles is way cool, along with Abracadaber in Cochise.

As my friends know, the Needles is one of my favorite areas. I thought hard about suggesting Atlantis for this OP position. As amazing and fun as it is, I can't quite list as the "Best 5.11 in the U.S." The 5.11 on the route is a one move (maybe two) deal. The first pitch is fantastic, but not .11, The second is non-descript. The third is the money pitch, and features the short .11 crux followed by the beautiful 5.9 crack. Lost at Sea offers solid added value, but again not .11. As great a route as it is, it doesn't offer up enough 5.11 climbing to fill the bill.

 If the list was for "best 5.10," I'd think hard about suggesting Spook Book, and if it were for "best 5.12" I'd throw down with Romantic Warrior for sure. It's weird, but I don't see the best 5.11 in the country at the Needles.

I've never climbed at Cochise, a huge hole in my climbing resume, and not the only one for sure   .

persistence

phylp phylpwrote:

I don't have the experience of many of you that are voicing opinions here, but I have done more than a half dozen that appear on that top 50 list.  This is what strikes me: When I look at the ones I've done and then ask myself, was that the BEST 5.11 I did in that area, I find that I can't decide because there are typically so many other great ones not that far away.   I mean, once you're in Yosemite Valley, or Joshua Tree, or Red Rock, or City of Rocks, or the ORG, or Donner Summit and you do the routes from those places on that list, you are practicallyor literally within walking distance to dozens of other amazing routes.  (OK, Space Walk/Eagle Lake isn't at Donner Summit but it's a reasonable short drive from Emerald Bay to the Summit and all those amazing cracks at Snowshed).  

So if you don't live near these places like I do, just pick a place that suits your preferred climbing style and make a pilgrimage.  Stay for a couple of weeks if you can.  At some of these places, you still won't scratch the surface.

I like your point that every area has some great 5.11's, and it's hard if not impossible to choose one from all the areas that is the best. If I'm smelling what you're cooking, so to speak?

But to answer the OP's question, I've simply ruled out entire areas. For example, I cannot see the "best 5.11 in the U.S." as being anywhere in Josh. Or the Needles. Or Idyllwild. Or even the Gunks (although I just painted a big target on my back with that one fore sure   )  or anywhere else I've climbed beyond Yosemite, specifically Astroman. 

Of course, I haven't climbed everywhere in the U.S., few have. The OP is just  looking for a fun chat about our opinions and experiences. My specs are:

Traditional. At cutting edge grades sport could well hold the title, but not at 5.11.

Multi pitch. IMO there's no way a one pitch climb at the 5.11 grade can be among the "best in the U.S."

Historical. IMO a "best in the U.S." climb has to have a history. When you climb it you must be able to look back and say "wow."

Setting. It is a big part of the total experience. 

My personal experience narrows it down to Astroman. Of course there are a ton of areas full of big 5.11's Where I've never climbed. The Black, Cochise, the list goes on...

Surprised no one said freeblast.

One of my favorite 11s

South face of North Six shooter. Lightning Bolt cracks and Liquid Sky.