New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #19

Women climbers are probably one of the better things that happened to climbing in the last 25 years. After a day of climbing, we’d sit around the camp fire drinking, belching and farting, waiting for the women to show up. They rarely did. There was “the wolfpack” prowling Rifle, but most of us were too cowardly to approach them.

Anyway, I remember Russ’ Maxipad, and we all wanted one. The name made us chortle like a bunch of 12 year-olds, which we were (and still are) on the maturity level. 

Frank Steinwrote:

Anyway, I remember Russ’ Maxipad, and we all wanted one. 

I think it's a great name!  Wonderfully humorous marketing!  

Frank Steinwrote:

Women climbers are probably one of the better things that happened to climbing in the last 25 years. 

Agree.  Keeps things more "under control".
These days, for my indoors sessions, it is not unusual for women climbers to out number men.  And on Kalymnos, pre CVOID, women regularly equalled or outnumbered men at nearly all the crags we visited.

Todd Berlier wrote:

i think there is a good argument that sexism, racism and homophobia played a role in the sport being predominantly white males for a long time. very thankful this has changed.  there were a couple experiences that shaped my views early on:

i was in joes valley in the late 90s early 00s warming up and some soft spoken woman was with her partner warming up and she easily climbed the short problem near Black Lung. i looked it up in the guide and saw V8! thought oh, must be soft. 1.5 hours later i finally did it with her helping me with beta. turns out the woman was Lisa Rands--OG BADASS BOULDERER:

thats when my implicit bias became explicit.

another day in the nineties i was at the RRG and trying to onsight the dinosaur i think 13a or b (edit: ugh...its been downgraded to 12d...makes sense) beside me was mike freeman (he was the first POC climber i met) trying to redpoint mercy the huff. we took turns climbing short sections between rests and chatting just about life and climbing and encouraging each other thru each section. for about 20 minutes this went on and we both did the routes.

as far as names being redacted. my opinion is that if the pendulum swings a little too far in the opposite direction than it has for forever, thats fine--i don't decide whats offensive to someone else and i dont care that much what something is named.

i think ive done well to avoid political and polarizing topics! thanks for indulging me ;)

Ok hopefully I don’t need to say this but just in case, I’m kidding Russ… just having fun with him.  And I believe we are in agreement about redactions…

One of the biggest benefits of this thread for me has been learning how easy it is to sidestep political and pc topics. I’ve softened here and elsewhere, I have a new appreciation for our differences and good-heartedness—and I’ll take friendship over arguments every time.  

As for why women were not a part of the climbing scene bitd veterans here probably know why. Actually I still say I see very rare female climbers in Josh although I know the gyms and sport crags have an equal mix.  Maybe I’m just not seeing all the women here.

I made another attempt on Sugarloaf today with my daughter and did get right up to large boulders at the base but decided I was close enough.  It is an exhausting hike but damn that rock is beautiful.  Some day I will climb something on it.  Meanwhile, Todd, I passed a dozen huge boulders and several boulderers on various rocks.  You would have a blast. 

Todd Berlier wrote:

i was in joes valley in the late 90s early 00s warming up and some soft spoken woman was with her partner warming up and she easily climbed the short problem near Black Lung. i looked it up in the guide and saw V8! thought oh, must be soft. 1.5 hours later i finally did it with her helping me with beta. turns out the woman was Lisa Rands--OG BADASS BOULDERER:

Great story!

Lisa Rands is super badass.  Besides ML, High Plain Drifter, The Mandala, etc, she stunned the British establishment wth bold ascents of nightmarish E8 gritstone routes such as https://www.planetmountain.com/en/news/climbing/lisa-rands-climbs-gritstone-e8.html

I think she more recently did a tough route on The Hulk with Peter Croft.

S. Neohwrote:

Agree.  Keeps things more "under control".
These days, for my indoors sessions, it is not unusual for women climbers to out number men.  And on Kalymnos, pre CVOID, women regularly equalled or outnumbered men at nearly all the crags we visited.

I was climbing at Mineral del Chico, Mexico.  More people bouldering than climbing and the women outnumbered the men 2 or 3 to 1.  And there were a lot of them.  For roped climbing, about 25% of the local climbers I've observed in Mexico are women, and very competent.  My friend in Monterrey started his daughter climbing when she was three, now 10, and going to be our rope gun in a few more years.

A million years ago in a different life I was a martial arts instructor which meant  training and working in a health club.(ego city)  Lifting with one of my body builder friends  he would do his set and then take a few plates off. his girlfriend would then do her set and I would take a few plates off to do my set.  This really impressed them. Apparently most dudes could not  process a woman being stronger than  them and they ended up getting crushed, hurt or both.  I am pretty used to the fact that most women climb better than I do ;)...

Idaho Bobwrote:

  For roped climbing, about 25% of the local climbers I've observed in Mexico are women, and very competent.  My friend in Monterrey started his daughter climbing when she was three, now 10, and going to be our rope gun in a few more years.

Good for your friend!  My daughter did not take to climbing so my hopes for a rope gun within the fam had been crushed.
Back on Kalymnos, at itts famous Grande Groto, we were watching a bunch of Euros on the famous F8a (.13b) there.  I noticed one in particular climbed the route gracefully and made it look like .10d. Back on terra firma, I realized the climber was a woman, albeit a tall one.  Everything then made sense :) 

Out at my local crag TRing today. Same place as Thurs evening. Grades of 17, 20, 21.

Taught a beginner fellow how to belay.  He asked if I’d ever instructed before.  So I explained my army recruit instructor and other army instruction and then community college and prison training I’ve done. He said yes, it shows, you’re a great instructor. He asked if I’d instructed climbing (which I haven’t) but I’d absolutely love that job taking newbies out TRing. Teaching them how to set up etc.  

Lori Milaswrote:

Or… maybe Russ drove them all away. Russ may be singularly responsible for climbing being an all-male sport.  

Quite the contrary… I was a Fabio like draw to the females, and even some males.  

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

A million years ago in a different life I was a martial arts instructor which meant  training and working in a health club.(ego city)  Lifting with one of my body builder friends  he would do his set and then take a few plates off. his girlfriend would then do her set and I would take a few plates off to do my set.  This really impressed them. Apparently most dudes could not  process a woman being stronger than  them and they ended up getting crushed, hurt or both.  I am pretty used to the fact that most women climb better than I do ;)...

That's great.

I have had the good fortune to climb with some very impressive women pretty much from when I started, a long time ago. They were a small minority in the UK in the 70s and 80s. You'd have ask the women why this was but I remember some laughably unreconstructed attitudes ("Does she know what grade that is?" as a female partner set off up a 5.11 is one of the more repeatable comments).

I hung out with Alison Osius in Yosemite in the early 1980s. We were all very impressed by her, not least because she climbed considerably harder than her boyfriend (as they were called at the time). Strong women were not unknown but, in our experience to that point, they were invariably one of a power couple.

Russ Wallingwrote:

Quite the contrary… I was a Fabio like draw to the females, and even some males.  

Suze puts up with this?   

I walked the biathlon today. back felt ok. Slow time walking and I shot poorly but it was still a hoot.  this photo sequence illustrates  why they call flint locks flinch locks! 

even the percussion rigs have a slow lock time.

spotted a Rogers Ranger in uniform.

I just returned home from a week in Sacramento.  Feels like new 'climbing challenges' all around... unexpectedly.  This is the first time I have felt like I abandoned my family, got out too soon... and it's no joy to drive away from 7 grandchildren.  My family was different a few years ago, and I knew I couldn't expect my kids to keep me entertained while I sat in that big empty house alone.  But now they all need me, hard to say which one needs me most.  This was the first time I saw my son-in-law since his motorcycle accident... on crutches, brain injury, no use of his left arm, and more surgeries coming up.  It was tough to sit and be with this tough Marine and see the changes and know my daughter is trying to carry the family.  

I reconnected with my son... and got a thank you card from my three granddaughters whom I haven't seen in 2 years.  That's another whole story.  Is there any way to be a grandma from 600 miles away, and climb, and do all that is needed here in Josh?   So, this morning I'm a bit heart broken. 

I know I've gone on and on about Sugarloaf... but that one was hard, too.  My daughter hiked up with me, and while she was light on her feet, I felt VERY old, and very out of shape.  Maybe I have misjudged my own abilities and what I should attempt.  The last hundred feet to the base were exhausting... and that's just to the base.  Likely I would need a full morning just to manage the hike, rest, hike some more, rest... and be in any kind of shape for climbing.  It's also at some altitude.  I either need to let this go (forever) or plan on some work to be able to handle the approach, let alone the actual routes.  Kind of a come-to-jesus trip for me.  

Lori. nothing wrong with allowing a 45 min break at the base of the route to gear up and get your wind back ;)

Oh my gosh Lori - so many times I get to the base after a hard approach and just think no way. Rest a bit, eat a snack, get geared up and it’s all good. Sounds like you have a good motivational goal! 

Yeah, what they said, Lori! Also, don't dismiss mere elevation gain, even apart from getting up there. It's a factor, for sure. I always notice the 4,000 ft. difference between here and COR, the while time I'm there. The whole place is 6500-7,000 feet, my house is only about 2500.

Stay hydrated, hit some electrolytes, and definitely snack as needed (and however that best works for you, obviously). This is just when my partners are going for fast hits of protein and sugar. The individual choices vary. Even more so for the ice climbers! Those guys pound back massive loads of food the night before. The amount my mountaineer friends eat, is staggering, lol! 

Don't make the mistake of offering to buy that dinner....when it's a sushi place. Sheesh.

Best, Helen

Lori, the family thing is hard. But? Your kids are grown up now. Unless someone explicitly asks you to move in and help, it's their challenge to face.

As to wishing to be there?

If you really are missing actually being there, then it's maybe time for a visit. Or, invite them to visit you.

You were a caregiver for a long long time though, through a lot of tough stuff. That may well be an automatic reaction, now, so be careful, eh?

Loving people, supporting those we love, caring about them....does not always mean being there 24/7. 

I still miss having my son around, would enjoy seeing him more, and he lives only a mile away.

But I also know that mostly means I need to keep working on my pool of people to play with! I got spoiled, with him living at home into his 20s. My first climbing partner and adventure friend, always up for something! I was the instigator when he was little, he was the one later. Now, of course, his wife is the companion, as it should be.

Best, Helen

Lori, here are a few observations about hiking and elevation gains for old folks.

First, a reminiscence about altitude from a not-so-old perspective,  In my early forties, I drove to the Tetons from NY, taking four or five days en route.  Among other aerobics, I had been regularly jumping rope for half an hour, getting a nice workout but certainly not even remotely exhausted.  So now I'm in Jackson Hole, I pull out my jump rope, and after ten minutes I'm cooked.  It took about two weeks before I could do at 7,000 feet what was routine for me at sea level.  I should add that I didn't feel particularly out of shape while hiking, but the jump rope routine detected a notable decline in aerobic capacity.  Again, this was when I was relatively young.

The last time I went to the Tetons was five years ago when I was a sprightly 73.  At that point, I knew the score vis a vis altitude for oldsters, and had a whole acclimatization plan worthy of an ascent of Mt, Everest, a plan that started out totally mellow and added uphill difficulty and top elevation in increments over five or six days, so the first day was to 9,000 feet (but probably starting at 8,000) and the last "official" bit of acclimatization was an all-day round trip from 7,000 feet to 12,500 with a touch of scrambling and a bit of route-finding in the last 700 feet.  For me that was about a 12 hour day and at that point, I judged myself fit enough for any Teton climbing objective.

Even so, there was a "but" that's relevant to your experience, and that is that younger people may be as fit or fitter off the couch than you are with diligent preparation.  That's the case with my daughter and her boyfriend, who are in their 30's and are active but are not athletes---they can smoke me on the trail even though I put in a lot more effort to stay fit.  And it was true of all my younger Teton partners.  They were always out ahead and had to continually take breaks waiting for me to catch up.  It is what it is, we just don't have the pulmonary and cardiovascular capacity we had when we were younger, even if we've always led an active lifestyle.  And this means that when hiking with younger folks, we either have to ask them to allow us to set the pace (in my experience, this only works for a short time before they find a way to get ahead) or else tailor our pace to our own aerobic needs no matter how fast the youngsters are going (this is not so easy physically or psychologically).

So here are your mistakes.  (1) You underestimated the demands of a reasonably strenuous hike at an altitude higher than you are used to.  (2) You went with a young person who (now I'm guessing) either pulled from ahead or pushed from behind to make you try to move faster than you should have (I'm not saying this was deliberate).  The good news is #1 is fully correctable and #2 is too with proper communication and determination.

A critical thing to develop for these activities is a sense of your own exertion levels, when you are moving at a "steady-state," meaning you could keep it up indefinitely, and when you are in higher aerobic zones that can only be maintained for shorter periods. I have a very clear sense of when I'm "falling behind," meaning I'm putting out more than I can sustain, and that is a signal to back off the pace until I feel more in equilibrium. (Of course, this can't necessarily be done immediately.) What I don't like and rarely do is to take rests along the way. I find my muscles stiffen and my aerobic state has to be restarted from zero when I do this, so it works much better for me to just slow down until I get back into a more steady state. But if it is an approach to a climb, I certainly want a good rest before the climbing begins.

I've found that developing this sense of internal capacity requires a certain amount of solo hiking, where there is no one else to influence your pacing decisions in any way and it is easy to focus on how you are feeling. You can also play with exertion, speeding up to see how long you can handle an increased workload and then tailing off whenever you want. Once you have a good sense of pace, when you can speed up and when you need to slow down, it is much easier to hike with others, assuming of course that they are going to tolerate your needs and abilities.

I live at 1,100 feet and our Arizona crag is at 8,000. The boulders are lower than the crag, maybe 7,600 feet.  It definitely takes me a long time to get used to hiking/climbing well at that altitude. We sleep at my friends place at 6,300 feet and that definitely helps with acclimarizing.  

My friend Steve and I are leaving Tuesday for nine climbing days there.  We always take it really slowly the first day, and by the end of our trips we always feel great  altitude wise.