Mixed Routes (bolts plus gear required): Inequitable, Annoying, Awesome?

I climb around Portland/Bend, and over the years I've put up routes at 10 or so crags, mainly obscure smaller crags in addition to main areas like Ozone and Beacon Rock. Our basalt lends itself well to mixed routes: for example, imagine a short-lived splitter ending at a crack-less face section, which then continues into a crack system that ends on a decent ledge near the top of the cliff. 

Most of the pure trad lines and hard sport lines went up before 2000 at the popular areas, but the obscure areas have many of these "mixed' faces. I started to develop in 2005, so I missed the glory years of those FAs, but love finding the hidden gems and solid rock at these obscure areas and finding a way to make them go on lead.

Recently someone asked me if I consider the "equitable" aspect of putting in routes that might be two thirds bolted but also require a few/several pieces of gear to be led safely. My honest answer was a point blank "no," end of discussion. The ethic I internalized was "don't bolt cracks," and so I don't.

I'm aware many people find it annoying to encounter/onsight those routes. To those folks I say, tough. If I put it up on MP or it's been put in a guidebook I give specific gear beta so you don't need to lug a double set up there.  If it's the very idea of a mixed route you find annoying, then don't climb it.

Other people tell me they love mixed routes, usually for the same reasons I do. The judicious and disciplined use of bolts, and having to rely on gear placement skills while also enjoying the relief and ease of clipping bolts when the gear options run out.

But, the inequity thing - should I be grappling with that? Am I a "gatekeeper" when I don't add 2 or 3 bolts and wipe out the need for trad gear? Am I making it harder for newer climbers who may be from historically marginalized groups or unable to afford a trad rack to get deeper into climbing? This issue doesn't exactly keep me up at night, but as an open-minded evolving person who genuinely would like to see more racial and economic diversity in climbing, I'm curious what "the community" thinks about mixed routes being put up in 2022.

You seem like a sensible, reasonable person. I’m sorry for what’s about to happen to your thread.

Mixed routes should never go out of style! If anything I hope we see more. Thanks for putting them up!

Sep Mwrote:

You seem like a sensible, reasonable person. I’m sorry for what’s about to happen to your thread.

I've been on MP a minute, I try to have a thick skin :) Also I like when the second post gets more likes then the first; I'm pulling for you!

Really good thoughts Bryans. I think it’s so regionally / crag dependent. I have no issues seeing bolts next to somewhat chossy cracks at Owen’s River Gorge, CA climbs and low quality seams at Vantage, WA. But I also love the sparsely bolted (could be viewed as mixed in places) style of Joshua Tree. One of the reasons I love climbing’s is it’s heterogeneity of styles and ethics. 

I think Index, WA does a good job of modeling what a modern “mixed” climb should / could look like.

Lastly, I think it matters if it’s a splitter with a few bolts to protect a face climbing aspect, or it’s mostly a face climb that has a couple intermittent placements. I’d say make the former mixed, lean towards a full sport climb for the latter?

1 or 2 gear placements on an otherwise fully bolted route is annoying. You can find two gear placements that will hold a fall on most sport routes.

Half bolts and half gear is understandable, especially if half the route is a splitter crack.

I’ve also bolted a handful of mixed routes at those basalt crags you’re describing. All the obvious ground up trad lines got done bitd, but there were still plenty of quality routes waiting to do.  So far everyone seems to like them.

I’d agree with most of what’s been said upthread and add that if it’s a sport climbing crag, mixed routes are annoying. Especially if they’re <50% gear climbing. 

David Bruneauwrote:

1 or 2 gear placements on an otherwise fully bolted route is annoying. You can find two gear placements that will hold a fall on most sport routes.

Half bolts and half gear is understandable, especially if half the route is a splitter crack.

This is about where I am, too.

Except, in practice, one or two gear placements on an otherwise fully bolted route very often ends up being a badly-bolted sport route.

In a sport area they're dumb. In a trad area they're great.

A question I have, and this seems to be common in basalt climbing, is how do people feel about bolts vs requiring "special" gear. What if a line goes on all gear if you use ballnuts and micronuts for a section, but those could just be replaced with a bolt or two?

Austin Donisanwrote:

In a sport area they're dumb. In a trad area they're great.

A question I have, and this seems to be common in basalt climbing, is how do people feel about bolts vs requiring "special" gear. What if a line goes on all gear if you use ballnuts and micronuts for a section, but those could just be replaced with a bolt or two?

I think it depends on the crag.  At Trout Creek, there's a long-standing ethic of no protection bolts, (excepting anchor bolts clipped on extensions, which are rarely hard) so there's a pretty solid precedent of utilizing specialty pro like ballnuts and RPs on harder routes out there.  At pretty much all of the other Central Oregon basalt crags, I'm less inclined to bother with the shenanigans as protection bolts are already a relatively common practice and the rock quality is usually slightly worse.  

At the heart of the matter, I think a lot depends on what kind of gear is above and below the microgear, what kind of stance you're placing it from, and how good the rock quality is.  If the rock is good, the stance is restful enough that you can take your time placing it well, and especially if there's something below it to catch if it rips, I think specialty-gear protected cruxes are pretty cool.

I was raised in South Dakota, and now reside on the Front Range of CO. The Black Hills and the South Platte are two of my favorite areas, and they each have a fair amount of good mixed lines. Mixed climbing is a great way to learn trad. Keep putting up your lines! 

I always liked mixed climbs.  They were my first 'trad' leads, and a nice way to break into placing gear.  

Anyone who can't afford trad gear can still toprope, or go sport climbing somewhere else.

I love  mixed  routes but  if it's  only  one  or  two  placement  screw it. Drill baby  drill  ;)

What about chimneys. I feel even on gear sometimes they are gross. No one ever agrees if the gear is good or bad if it’s flared. I feel often they could be all gear or all bolts and I don’t know what I prefer.

David Gibbswrote:

This is about where I am, too.

Except, in practice, one or two gear placements on an otherwise fully bolted route very often ends up being a badly-bolted sport route.

I didn't put these 2 5.11 "sport" routes up, but I helped, and they each take 1 piece of gear where we chose not to bolt next to perfect cam placements. This was back in 2005, and our whole crew was new to bolting, but none of us wanted to bolt next to the 2 perfect cam slots on these 2 routes. So we didn't, and 17 years later neither route has has gotten a bolt added, which makes me proud of our community. But to your point, and in the comments, not everyone loves those decisions. Can't please everyone, though.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/107135475/chainmail

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106987102/masterpiece-theatre

Mixed routes are awesome. I've really come to appreciate them here in NM. But if it's the only one at a sport crag and all it needs is two pieces of gear than maybe two bolts isn't so bad. I mean, one mixed route in the middle of the Minimum wall at Maple makes no sense (extreme hypothetical example). But if that's the nature of an area, then so be it. Tres Piedras is awesome, as are crags up around White Rocks. I take a pragmatic look at it.

Let the rock dictate the route… period! 

In route setting, it should be the number one rule. Nobody likes a contrived routes, squeezejobs, or a bolted crack. Chossy cracks, specialty gear, one or two placements on an otherwise bolted route… again, let the rock tell you what to do. There are always exceptions.

Climbing on gear has nothing to do with equality. You’re confusing the equality of opportunity, with the equality of outcome. Everyone has the opportunity to obtain gear. Most of us built our racks slowly but surely did we not? I’ve seen a broke ass climber surviving on cream cheese and mayonnaise packets from the Yosemite lodge save up enough cans over a month to buy a used cam off Ebay. So not everyone’s going to have the same experience, but the opportunity’s there. 

Sport, trad, aid, sounds like the most diverse route possible. That makes it the most equitable route there is. Stay true to your beliefs, not narratives being forced on you.

bryanswrote:

I didn't put these 2 5.11 "sport" routes up, but I helped, and they each take 1 piece of gear where we chose not to bolt next to perfect cam placements. This was back in 2005, and our whole crew was new to bolting, but none of us wanted to bolt next to the 2 perfect cam slots on these 2 routes. So we didn't, and 17 years later neither route has has gotten a bolt added, which makes me proud of our community. But to your point, and in the comments, not everyone loves those decisions. Can't please everyone, though.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/107135475/chainmail

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106987102/masterpiece-theatre

So those two routes are in an access sensitive area. If some noob skips the gear placements, takes a bad fall and needs to get rescued, the landowners may be inclined to shut down climbing. As some upthread have mentioned, these routes with a single gear placement are often climbed in the most dangerous way by the least competent climbers. My home crag on the east coast of Canada has many mixed routes with only one gear placement, and as one would expect, there are many harrowing stories of close calls involving inexperienced climbers skipping the gear placements. 

The visual damage has already been done by mostly bolting the routes on rappel, no land manager will notice the difference - these routes seem like prime candidates for full bolting. 

It’s nice for each route to have its own flavor. As the developer, you have the best taste for what would make a good route. If I go to Asia, I use chopsticks. A spoon would get the food down more efficiently, and a bolt may tick the route off of a list with more ease; but maybe we would miss some of the finer subtleties.

or I’m just hungry 

If you are worried about people lacking gear, maybe there is someone they can call in the community to borrow from.