SF Bay Area - Bad Bolts

Austin Donisanwrote:

The anchor bolts for Deliverance could use an upgrade. They're rusty wedge bolts right now, but more importantly causes a ton of rock wear when lowering.

The moves past the lip are 5.8 and don't really change the route. Topping out is always cool, but I don't think it's worth it here. I would suggest adding a new anchor with the lower offs ~2' below the last bolt.

I absolutely agree. I know people will argue that lowering the anchors will alter the nature of the route, but keeping the anchors where they are is clearly altering it more by cutting several 4-inch deep finger cracks into the rock.

Austin Donisanwrote:

Still keep the upper anchor for top access, though.

I would go a step further and suggest removing the top anchor altogether, to prevent even more damage. Though it's possible to extend the master point well over the edge and avoid this rope wear, people clearly aren't doing it.

Jamie Collinswrote:

I would go a step further and suggest removing the top anchor altogether, to prevent even more damage. Though it's possible to extend the master point well over the edge and avoid this rope wear, people clearly aren't doing it.

Eh, I think top access is worth preserving. There are Mussy hooks on the anchor right now, implicitly saying it's ok to use the anchor unextended which might be part of the problem.

With a lower anchor you could easily rap in and then set up a TR at the lower anchor instead of needing 30' of static rope. This is exactly the setup for Amazing Face at Boy Scout Rocks and I think it works well.

The way a few of the routes at boy scout are set up is really great in that matter, a bolt or two to rap down to the well placed anchors for the actual route. I think that's a great idea and the scars on top of those rocks shows why we should encourage it.

The first bolt on putrefaction has been replaced with a glue in. Whoever replaced it moved it about 2 ft higher.

The old hole was patched but it didn't look like any effort was made to reuse the hole.

Additionally a bunch of rock is broken from around the glue in. Doesn't look to be a structural issue but it is ugly.

Lastly a bunch of scoops and edges on the face have broken within the last year. Not pointing fingers at anyone just hope to remind everyone to be gentle.

I rebolted Deliverance about 8 years ago and the plan was to put a new anchor at the lip, but most of the rock at that spot is covered by a “scab” (an attached but hollow flake about 1-3” inches thick above the better rock underneath). Something could probably be figured out, but I couldn’t figure out a good solution that day that wouldn’t involve bashing down to the good rock, so I left it as is. Replacing the bolt on Putrefaction I was faced with a similar problem though with a much thinner scab. When I’m replacing bolts it’s scary how many old bolts I find that are placed in hollow rock. I won’t put a bolt in bad rock and for me that usually means moving the bolt a bit or even cleaning the top layer of scab if it’s thin enough. My point is is that it’s easy to criticize what looks like a less than perfectly replaced bolt, but it’s sometimes more complex than what meets the eye and I like to think that safety trumps aesthetics in some cases (the new bolt is 8” long, in good rock and hopefully bomber for years to come). I patched the scar on the new putrefaction bolt btw, but maybe if fell off? The usual plumbers putty doesn’t stick that great to such sandy rock. I’m sure there is a better product If anyone has suggestions or wants to go fix it that would be great! I’ll get around to it, but I have a long list of rebolting projects, and very little help.

"Scab" 

That is a great term for the formation you describe. 

Keep up the good work Jim!

Bobby, does JB Water Weld (the white one) work well on such rock? 

Not sure, only used it granite and limestone. If the sandstone is as soft as Jim describes you might not be able to get to a layer that it will bond with. The parch basically just sits on the outside of the rock. 

Jim Thornburgwrote:

I rebolted Deliverance about 8 years ago and the plan was to put a new anchor at the lip, but most of the rock at that spot is covered by a “scab” (an attached but hollow flake about 1-3” inches thick above the better rock underneath). Something could probably be figured out, but I couldn’t figure out a good solution that day that wouldn’t involve bashing down to the good rock, so I left it as is. Replacing the bolt on Putrefaction I was faced with a similar problem though with a much thinner scab. When I’m replacing bolts it’s scary how many old bolts I find that are placed in hollow rock. I won’t put a bolt in bad rock and for me that usually means moving the bolt a bit or even cleaning the top layer of scab if it’s thin enough. My point is is that it’s easy to criticize what looks like a less than perfectly replaced bolt, but it’s sometimes more complex than what meets the eye and I like to think that safety trumps aesthetics in some cases (the new bolt is 8” long, in good rock and hopefully bomber for years to come). I patched the scar on the new putrefaction bolt btw, but maybe if fell off? The usual plumbers putty doesn’t stick that great to such sandy rock. I’m sure there is a better product If anyone has suggestions or wants to go fix it that would be great! I’ll get around to it, but I have a long list of rebolting projects, and very little help.

maybe quickcrete 'concrete repair'?  it's a sand/acrylic mix that works well in holes, not sure about big patches.  definitely sticks better to sandstone than putty...

this is the top of eco-terrorist. 

so sad to see...

One of the crux slopers is covered in spray paint,

Do we wash the paint off and risk damaging the rock further?

Or do we leave it and risk someone adding more graffiti?

Anyone have any experience in this field?

The first bolt on Tall Man Simplex at Shady Rock in Castle Rock spins. There's a comment on the route page that this has been going on for at least 4 years. It is right at the beginning crux, so I am sure many people fall on it. Someone also mentioned the right anchor bolt spins. I didn't notice this while out today, but also worth checking out. 

Nick Bahrwrote:

The first bolt on Tall Man Simplex at Shady Rock in Castle Rock spins. There's a comment on the route page that this has been going on for at least 4 years. It is right at the beginning crux, so I am sure many people fall on it. Someone also mentioned the right anchor bolt spins. I didn't notice this while out today, but also worth checking out. 

AFAIK, that bolt has been spinning since 2016. I think it has something to do it the pic in bay area rock guidebook, it shows the wrong beta.

Danny Herrerawrote:

AFAIK, that bolt has been spinning since 2016. I think it has something to do it the pic in bay area rock guidebook, it shows the wrong beta.

What an interesting assessment. I didn't know a picture could cause a bolt to spin? Anyway, that's how we climbed it (and the bolt was already spinning, btw).

Jim Thornburgwrote:

What an interesting assessment. I didn't know a picture could cause a bolt to spin? Anyway, that's how we climbed it (and the bolt was already spinning, btw).

Photographs often cause hangers to spin. But THEY don't want you to know this. It sells less cameras and then the Multipixel Industrial Complex cant be funded. Tis always been this way with hangers, so much so there is the old saying.... "A picture is worth a thousand turns..." I rest my case.  ; ^ ) 

Jim Thornburgwrote:

What an interesting assessment. I didn't know a picture could cause a bolt to spin? Anyway, that's how we climbed it (and the bolt was already spinning, btw).

In my defense it was an old crusty who told me it was wrong! He also complained about slot nose being bolted because "its just a scramble".

The first bolt on Tall Man Simplex at Shady Rock in Castle Rock State Park is not in good shape.

I regret that I didn't take a picture but it's a rusty buttonhead with a decent 1-2mm gap between the top and the rock face. The hanger spins freely. From comments on the page, it seems it's been getting worse over the years.

This is my first time reporting a bad bolt, I'd be interested in learning/getting involved with a rebolting effort.

Tall Man Simplex is on my to project list (I'm a punter and 10c is hard for me) and I'm interested in possibly doing some rebolting there. I contacted the BACC to ask about how to get started with the process. If I do any rebolting I would be going hole for hole (or at least trying to, it isn't always possible) and replacing with 6" wave bolt glue ins. I'm not a huge fan of glue ins due to there not being a reasonable way to remove them in the future, but they seem like a good compromise on the soft sandstone at Castle-- the stories of people ripping out wedges on lead and taking mega falls I think are a good enough reason to select glue ins despite their significant downsides. 

If everything ends up moving forward and I end up rebolting I would definitely be down to get as much help as possible-- it's a lot of hard and dirty work. 

Any other routes in the area in need? I know practice route #2 at Summit is in desperate need and IMO is one of the most fun 5.8s in the state, but that's going to be closed for some months yet. What else on the Castle side could use some love?

Just visited Shady Rock today, Tall Man Simplex indeed needing some love. Herpes Simplex next to it had decent enough bolts, still rusted but I belayed a friend on it. Didn't get on the routes on the other side but some already had glue-ins. The first bolt on Small Man Complex looked less than ideal at first glance but I didn't do the route to truly know. I would similarly be interested in learning some rebolting, or generally getting out there for a maintenance effort. I would certainly consider hiking to many of the crags and getting a status on the bolts.

Does BACC still monitor this? If not, best recommendations as to where to report issues around here, ASCA, etc?

At Salt Point, two routes on Conch and one on buttress were missing hangers (bolts still in place) as of April 2023.