Getting divorced and climbing is a big reason why. Advice?

Christopher Smithwrote:

..."Trust me even the idea of amicably divorced having an impact on kids is backed up by research."...

Throwing a different perspective, thank god my parents got divorced. My dad is a kind person but has his issues, and I am so happy I was raised by my step-dad. 

I won't get into all the details but I've grown up incredibly proud of my parents and happy with the way that things have turned out, and I can guarantee I would be a much worse person if they were still together. 

Yeah it has an impact on kids, I am sure there were times I was upset or frustrated (some of which could have been solved if they clued me into some details earlier in life), however I ended up in a situation that for sure helped make my life better.  

Christopher Smithwrote:

 And while yes, I am a Christian (traditional Catholic to be exact), I realized pretty much all this when I was still just a wandering agnostic and making a lot of these mistakes with sex.  The problems with marriage has nothing to do with "modern blah blah blah".

Would you say that the "modern blah blah blah" reasons that marriages fail aren't the same reasons why the church is failing? I would say they are the same.

One of the big reasons why marriages lasted longer in the past is because women had less freedom, particularly financial freedom (e.g. ability to get loans, mortgages, and credit), and less protection from workplace discrimination. My paternal grandparents were married until one died, and they didn't speak to each other for decades. My maternal grandparents were also married until one died. They slept in separate bedrooms and screamed at each other. My own parents are now in their 70s, married since my mom was 20 and my dad was 23. I don't know how or why my mother has put up with my father for this long. He's got a volcanic temper, blames her for anything that goes wrong, expects her to prepare his meals three times a day, and thinks being mean to her in public is funny. Any one of those would be a dealbreaker for me. So I don't think it's very useful to compare modern marriage to past marriage. A lot of women in the past put up with unhappy marriages because the alternatives were so bleak. The past 50 years or so are the first time in western history that it's relatively practical for a woman to live financially independently. It's also the first time in western history that men have been asked to treat women as equals and are expected to be good partners rather than just good providers/workers/bosses/members of their church or Elk lodge or whatever. 

Free Spiritwrote:

I think in this modern day and age, relationships don't tend to last FOREVER the way they used to. 

Technically divorce rates are Down . Now relationship length and divorce isn't perfectly correlated but the 80s was the peak of divorcee rates so it depends on the period you are defining as used to. 

I think a good take is that every case is different, but in general, kids do better with parents that like and value each other regardless of marriage or divorce.  

Like L Kap, as a kid, I couldn’t understand how my Mom ended up with/put up with my Dad.  Made no sense to me.  Best thing that happened was the divorce and her meeting my stepdad.  Made perfect sense to me.  Everything improved   

I honestly don’t understand how people who once loved each other (and especially those that committed to a vow of marriage) and to have children, can get to the point of practically despising or outright hating the other person.  

Maybe it’s like buying fake climbing gear from Chinese websites.  Didn’t look close enough at the label and specs before buying.  “Well, it LOOKED like good gear”…

Sure people can change and drift apart, but people don’t change THAT much.  The real tragedies I’ve seen are full blown wars with kids in the middle.  That sucks.  

Astrid Reywrote:

But I'm not sure we can measure the quality of a childhood by counting holidays...

tell that to 10 year old me. 3 Christmases sounds pretty sweeeeeeeeeeeet

joking aside, my wife's parents just got divorced this past year and it's been an interesting ride for sure (seeing how it effects their fully grown kids, all in their 30s).

F r i t zwrote:

BURN! That hits close to home. And I straight up guffawed at the mention of Disney+.

Lol, me too. Doubt I'll ever live up to these phony Prince Charming's!

Sending you all the love and positivity I can, Ben. Hang in there. Time will be your friend. 

This thread has taught me that it is possible to be a perfect parent. 

Just give your kids 365 Christmases every year.

soft cruxwrote:

This thread has taught me that it is possible to be a perfect parent. 

Just give your kids 365 Christmases every year.

I might be a little old but let me know if you’re looking to adopt. 

Ben Fwrote:

My wife and I are getting divorced and I feel pretty shitty and am hoping to hear some advice from anyone who has been through this.

We have been together almost ten years and have had our normal share of problems, but until the last 2 years when things really started going downhill, I didn't think there was anything out of the ordinary and we were by and large happy. She is only mildly interested in climbing and doesn't like suffering at all so we don't get out climbing together all that much. She had the patience of Job with allowing me tons of time to go climbing, including lots of shorter trips. There were a lot of trips where she would come and chill and hike or something while I went climbing too. I felt like I was conscious of the time component and tried to include her as much as possible and really be present with her the rest of the time but between our jobs, life, and my climbing time, it turns out that there might not be enough time for it all.

Thankfully the process of divorcing shouldnt be too bad since we have pretty equal assets/income, no kids, and we don't hate each other. But I feel pretty lost in general and second guessing a lot of my life. There were other issues that drove us apart but I'm still spending a lot of time wondering if I screwed up by spending so much time climbing. Are there climbing fanatics out there that actually make it work with a non-climbing or minimal-climbing partner and also feel fulfilled with the amount of climbing they get in?

My dude. Ive been in the same boat. NEVER second guess yourself for following your passions. And Fuck anyone who gives you shit for doing you! I dont know your girl and im not trying to bash her. But it sounds like she is selfish.  Trying to make someone else happy is a loosing battle. MAKE YOURSELF Happy first.
And youll attract better people in the end. Life is to damn short.

Im 42 yrs old. I have no family. Im still lost dude lol but im comfortable with it. Some days I want a girlfriend. And other days im like hell no fuck that. Been in relationships for about 15 years total if you add them all up. Not to mention a couple handfuls of short flings. People come in go in life and the thing that always remains is YOU. Love yourself first man! Nothing is worth your mental well being.
Good luck buddy.

P.s Mammals were never meant to be monogamous creatures. Sleep on that. 

As I've aged over the years I've learned some good stuff. #1 is dying alone looks pretty effed up. Having a solid family structure seems to help those dying. Friends and all are good, but they don't seem to be able to offer as much as family. Sure, I've seen exceptions, but family seems to be better at the end for the dying. 

My mans Eddie dropping knowledge up in this piece. Come hang out in the southeast one day homie. 

Dane Bwrote:

My mans Eddie dropping knowledge up in this piece. Come hang out in the southeast one day homie. 

This summer or fall for sure 

Eddie Purcellwrote:

P.s Mammals were never meant to be monogamous creatures. Sleep on that. 

30% of primates are

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

30% of primates are

...meaning 70 percent are not?

Eddie Purcellwrote:

P.s Mammals were never meant to be monogamous creatures. Sleep on that. 

I call second dibs on climbing with the prussikmaster here.

I was totally with you until the last line ... if you posit macroevolution and the Big Bang as the metanarrative of human origin, how can anything be intended or meant?

... because this thread hasn't drifted enough ...

I heard on NPR that albatrosses are no longer mating for life like they used to.

Scientists cited historically low interest rates as the possible cause.

Eddie Purcellwrote:

P.s Mammals were never meant to be monogamous creatures. Sleep on that. 

If you mean we were never meant to be monogamous because biology and evolution have adapted to certain behaviors, then you are probably right. Evolution has programmed us to cheat and try to get away with it, or move on once our children are grown (especially men.)  If we use evolution and natural selection as the standard then we were probably meant to be a lot of horrible things. Male lions (mammals) will kill baby lions that are not their offspring. Dolphins (also mammals) often perform what is basically gang rape. It's not a stretch to argue that with human women "were never meant" to be anything but pregnant, breastfeeding and otherwise caring for children. And in general we were probably "meant" to be killing each other constantly to gain territory and resources.

I don't want to live in a world controlled by what we were meant to be. That's what makes humans different, we don't have to obey the rules of biology all the time.

Astrid Reywrote:

If you mean we were never meant to be monogamous because biology and evolution have adapted to certain behaviors, then you are probably right. Evolution has programmed us to cheat and try to get away with it, or move on once our children are grown (especially men.)  If we use evolution and natural selection as the standard then we were probably meant to be a lot of horrible things. Male lions (mammals) will kill baby lions that are not their offspring. Dolphins (also mammals) often perform what is basically gang rape. It's not a stretch to argue that with human women "were never meant" to be anything but pregnant, breastfeeding and otherwise caring for children. And in general we were probably "meant" to be killing each other constantly to gain territory and resources.

I don't want to live in a world controlled by what we were meant to be. That's what makes humans different, we don't have to obey the rules of biology all the time.

Wow! Astrid totally nailed it. You could protect this thread with offset blue-yellow Mastercams now.

Just because something is does not mean it should be.

Just because something occurs in nature does not make it "good" or "right" or "morally acceptable," unpack those heavily-laden terms however you will.

A man said to the universe:

“Sir, I exist!”

“However,” replied the universe,

“The fact has not created in me

A sense of obligation.”

-- Stephen muthafuggn Crane

or if you prefer, St. Kurt of Cobain had a few things to say about nature.