New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #18

Lori.  Climbing is  usually a team sport.  You are a valuable part of the team.  Sometimes the  belayer even  sees  something that the  leader  missed  and  ends up  unlocking the key  to the ascent.

Most of our  crew has been out with  covid for the last two weeks.  I thought I was  careful  enough to skate free.  We have been working outside  and i wear my  mask  whenever I have to get close to anyone.  Had a  test  Thursday that  came back  negative  so went to isa's  for the weekend.  Also have had 2 shots  of  modena.  Woke up Saturday morning with a scratchy  throat.  Went  climbing  anyways.  It's  outside and I kept my  distance.   Woke up this morning  feeling like shit.  Got  tested on the way home.  Can't really afford to lose  two weeks of work for covid  or get sick and die.. will feel like shit if i give it to isa. 

Lori, from what I read about Joshua Tree, it's a very hard place to start leading. When I began climbing and leading, there was little choice but trad. However, the areas where I climbed had some fairly easy climbs and, just as important lots of good crack placements that I could lace up. JT, on the other hand, seems to be a combination of bolts and trad with very sporty runouts between the bolts and tricky trad placements that may not be from great stances. I think I would have had a hard time getting into leading there and probably would never have led at anywhere near the level I led on well-protected trad or purely sport routes.

Nick -- I hope it turns out to be nothing. Went to the gym yesterday morning (everyone masked) and there were a bunch of little kids there. It dawned on me that it wasn't so good to be among a bunch of probably unvaccinated little petri dishes.    

Nick Goldsmithwrote:Had a  test  Thursday that  came back  negative  so went to isa's  for the weekend.  Also have had 2 shots  of  modena.  Woke up Saturday morning with a scratchy  throat.  Went  climbing  anyways.  It's  outside and I kept my  distance.   Woke up this morning  feeling like shit.  Got  tested on the way home.  Can't really afford to lose  two weeks of work for covid  or get sick and die.. will feel like shit if i give it to isa. 

Nick, I’m so sorry, I hope you are OK. 

Hey Lori,

So glad that things are looking good so far for Tony.  Wishing him (and you) the best.

Whenever you talk about leading, I can't help myself but to butt in.  From the other side, as a leader for 20 years, there's a perspective you're not seeing.  From my perspective, the toproping you're doing seems entirely valid, and downplaying your ability in relation to lead climbers seems silly.  I'll try to explain why. 

Yes, you're right that lead and TR can be different worlds.  But that is not universal.  You happen to be looking at the extreme end of the spectrum.  In fact, one of the reasons why I and others here have never(?) really poked you very hard about leading is that the kind of climbing you want to pursue (thin face and slab) in an area (J-Tree) with strict traditional ethics has one of the biggest gaps between lead and TR you could find.

Looking instead at my favorite style of climbing:  pure crack climbing, you see the opposite end of the spectrum.  Once you get past a bit of learning about rope management, gear placement, and anchors, there is relatively little difference between leading pure crack climbs and following them.  There is typically decent gear to be had on lead at all times and so the risks of falling are much less.  (Steep sport climbing - another type of climbing I enjoy, may even *reverse* the difficulty between leader and follower).  Now compare that to Trad thin face and slab at JTree, and the difference is huge.

Looking back, there were other significant reasons, but I'm now sure that it is not coincidence that the day I decided I wanted to be a lead climber is also the day I fell in love with crack climbing.  Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would have little interest in leading, except as a means to ascend the easiest routes to the tops of the domes to set topropes on the climbs that really inspire me.

As a final note, it's good that you have your eyes open and can see the difference between "just toproping" and leading the climbs that most inspire you.  But as for personal comparisons, I have to say that I think they have no place in climbing.  If I thought otherwise, I would have hung up my helmet long ago.  I will never be interested or able to do many of the things other climbers can do.  Climbs that I respect and admire.  But so what?  Comparing ones goals with the goals of others is a silly game.  I'm happy if I get the chance to pursue my own goals to the best of my body's ability.  (Now I just need this damn elbow to behave.)

Cheers,

GO

Edited to add 

P.S. - As I was typing, Wendy said much the same, more succinctly.  Oh well.

And PPS:  Good luck Nick!

Nick, I got sick about a month ago and got a test (negative). I think it was perhaps a sinus infection, or else an ugly cold. Dragged on for a week and a half.

I'm thinking colds/fly/crud will be a lot more vicious this winter, after so much time with little exposure.

Hope you're good on the test, and get well soon, sir!

H.

Thanks everyone. 

 I have been prodding Lori occasionally for about the last year to go somewhere more forgiving for a month or so.. Jtree is tough. They bowl overhand.   Heck there are G rated 5.7s at Castle rock with  5.11 exposure . This one is on Braxies Pillar.

Got out for a ski sat with Bernie the wonder dog.

Sunday I Bernie was a good dog and watched the house while we got and ski to a climb in before I got sick....  Isa led the 2nd pitch. 

 This was a nice little heads up to remember to not put all our eggs in one basket.  It just got bumped on the way by and the biner stuck in the perfect wrong spot.

S. Neohwrote:

There are sound reasons to TR a climb besides it being beyond one's strength and/or technical capability.  Lack of reliable gear is one.  Missing some key/specialized/large camming devices is another.  At sport areas, some lines are left as TR because if they were bolted, these lines will just be varaints or worse; "squeeze jobs" among the bolted lines.  I am sure there are other reasons why a TR is at times the right/sound decision regardless of technical difficulty.  

As a lead climber, I believe one ought to be responsible to "protect one's second", and do the best job possible at it. In the Northeast, there are numerous climbs involving traverses which can be more fearful for the follower than the leader. Protecting your second is not something obvious for many leaders. I freely admit I had slipped up badly at least three times over the years and gotten an earful from my experienced seconds afterwards each time.

At our age, one key thing to avoid is getting hurt.  A simple injury can set us back for months if not a year or more.  But we also have the wisdom to extend our longevity by recognizing our diminished limits and making smart decisions accordingly.  Taking a TR instead of the sharp end is better than getting all banged up.  

Keep climbing and keep having fun doing it!  Best to you and Tony.

Nice post Neo!

My favorite use of TR is working on something that requires me to learn new technique. We put a TR on a 10- yesterday that was a style I have assiduously avoided for almost 50 years, I lost a lot of skin, hung about every foot, but I definitely learned some new technique! We had Kent Pease's Crack Manual open at the bottom of the route for reference - I did my first ever moves of Leavittation. 

While I am suffering today I managed to avoid injury which is the definition of a good day now!

wendy weisswrote:

Lori, from what I read about Joshua Tree, it's a very hard place to start leading. When I began climbing and leading, there was little choice but trad. However, the areas where I climbed had some fairly easy climbs and, just as important lots of good crack placements that I could lace up. JT, on the other hand, seems to be a combination of bolts and trad with very sporty runouts between the bolts and tricky trad placements that may not be from great stances. I think I would have had a hard time getting into leading there and probably would never have led at anywhere near the level I led on well-protected trad or purely sport routes.

.I have never climbed at JT but want to.  I have heard the same about JT as Wendy.  JT is a bucket list item, along with so many others!

Like Wendy, I was blessed with many well protected moderate leads in the Northeast when I was starting out. Both Cathedral/Whitehorse and The Gunks are blessed wth numerous "baby" G- to never-in-this-lifetime X-rated routes in the 5.1 thru 5.11 range. Both locales also have numerous "easy" routes which have what I call "5.10 exposure". Cruising along while in a groove, with an abundance of good gear, complemented by "air" and a view to kill for is one of the best rewards of climbing.

At our age, I feel like we have earned the priviledge not to suffer while climbing, take it easy, and have the best time possible.   I think Nick has pretty much got this sewn up!! :) 

David Housewrote:

Nice post Neo!

My favorite use of TR is working on something that requires me to learn new technique. We put a TR on a 10- yesterday that was a style I have assiduously avoided for almost 50 years, I lost a lot of skin, hung about every foot, but I definitely learned some new technique! We had Kent Pease's Crack Manual open at the bottom of the route for reference - I did my first ever moves of Leavittation. 

While I am suffering today I managed to avoid injury which is the definition of a good day now!

Hilarious! I have also brought Kent's manual to the crag for study during a day of crack climbing (thrutching). His diagrams are actually super helpful. Sounds like your trip was a success? 

ErikaNWwrote:

Hilarious! I have also brought Kent's manual to the crag for study during a day of crack climbing (thrutching). His diagrams are actually super helpful. Sounds like your trip was a success? 

Depends on your definition of success, but I will definitely go back to the Creek.

I learned more about crack climbing in  one trip to the creek than I had learned in the previous 15 years 

I am heading to the hospital this morning, Tony seems to think he’s ready to go home. I guess if he’s not bleeding from his ears and head he thinks he’s healed. I’ll be there to insist that he stays but I don’t know who’s going to tie him down. He told me this morning that he was always taught to “play through the pain“ and I’m here to tell heim to give yourself a minute you have some healing to do. What will be interesting to me is whether he can convince his brain that he can now walk. I know that can be hard to trust when it hasn’t worked in so long.

My thought these last few days is am I going to run out of routes like that old soft shoe? That was fabulous!  I wonder if some of us had ADHD as kids because I am at a loss as to why routes like this are so engaging and so wonderful for the brain. I had some time to consider how I was going to climb that and I saw the first step as a left edge. Nelson gave me a minute to try that out but he already knew it was a  left toe-in which worked. How does a toe in on a quarter inch edge work? But when it did I was so shocked that I had to stand there and exclaim about the wonder of it all until I fell off.   Nelson suggested that next time I might want to get a move on and actually climb instead of running a commentary on how crazy this is. I have just been goddamn lucky (to be able to have so much fun with such great people).

Lori Milaswrote:

...I wonder if some of us had ADHD as kids..?

I'm a lifer   .

You keep that boy from screwing up the best efforts of an amazing surgical team. Maybe a bit of Ativan?  Sweet dreams... 

Kristian Solemwrote:

I'm a lifer   .

I think mine is getting worse!   

Jan Mcwrote:

I think mine is getting worse!   

Wut?

Old lady Hwrote:

Wut?

I am positing the theory that the special affinity for steep slab and thin face climbing could be due to a history of ADHD.  I love climbing in general but this is of another quality and intensity  (for me), and the focus required is very calming, so I am suggesting it could be due to a very peculiar brain attribute.     (Ok, backing up a bit, I’m sure this is not so funny to one of us here who struggles with a brain issue.  Feel free to make diabetes jokes. fair is fair).  

Lori Milaswrote:

I am positing the theory that the special affinity for steep slab and thin face climbing could be due to a history of ADHD.  I love climbing in general but this is of another quality and intensity  (for me), and the focus required is very calming, so I am suggesting it could be due to a very peculiar brain attribute.     (Ok, backing up a bit, I’m sure this is not so funny to one of us here who struggles with a brain issue.  Feel free to make diabetes jokes. fair is fair).  

F'em if they can't have a laugh... Now diabetes jokes? Hmmm.

Lori Milaswrote:

I am positing the theory that the special affinity for steep slab and thin face climbing could be due to a history of ADHD.  I love climbing in general but this is of another quality and intensity  (for me), and the focus required is very calming, so I am suggesting it could be due to a very peculiar brain attribute.     (Ok, backing up a bit, I’m sure this is not so funny to one of us here who struggles with a brain issue.  Feel free to make diabetes jokes. fair is fair).  

"very peculiar brain attributes" - man, nothing ever described me quite so well.  And PROUD of it.

Anyone in the mood for silly thoughts? 

Pathways

by Carl

How many roads? 

Must a? 

Man?

Before... 

A man?

How many paths? 

Must a?

Neuron?

Before...

A thought?

How many shades are black?

How many shades are white?

What is not good?

What is not right?

What is this spot I see before me?

Is that a devil to my right?

Is there a space where we can hang together,

and live as one... 

and all is right.

YAY! negative test. still feel like shit.  testing again today.