You Suck at Belaying

Old lady Hwrote:

Stop climbing nude?   

Gotta climb skyline and upper bread loaves in purest style ;)  

Josh Squirewrote:

Who’s Willy? I have climbed all over the world in a variety of settings, so I think I have the requisite experience. Now, I want to be clear because I think this thread is all over the place. I responded to this thread SOLELY based on some people saying you should never give a soft catch. That is false and is a required skill in harder sport and even steep trad. You keep saying that it’s rare. That is totally dependent on the individual. I know climbers who never fall, never climb above 5.8, and never leave their home area. That’s totally fine and I have no problem with that. But when you challenge someone on something they have experience with and you don’t, then maybe just stop. I also train a lot in the gym on steep lead routes, so I may give way more soft catches then your average climber. Like I said, it’s totally dependent on the individual climber.

The tree thing was merely to compare impact forces. Apparently that analogy didn’t work for people :)

Once again, the ability to give a soft catch is mandatory if you are to belay me on a steep project. As far as you personally saying it’s rare, then that’s probably true. Only you and your circle know that. But don’t assume other climbers aren’t using it all the time.

You are Willy. Willy Konka - it was your own attempt at a meme... I'm not sure you understand what I am arguing. I'm all for soft catches and rarely is a hard catch warranted. If you are responding "...SOLELY based on some people saying you should never give a soft catch," that is not me, I've never said that. Maybe you assumed my viewpoint because I'm saying soft catching is not a cure-all to avoid injury and you are lumping me with people that are anti-soft catch? Soft catches are effective a lot of the time and should be used often. What I said was "What I have an issue with is people very commonly say that they got injured because of a hard catch, as if there would have been zero injury otherwise." Your point of view is that a soft catch PREVENTS you from hitting the wall. If that is your belief (not typically reality), your skiing analogy might hold water, since you are thinking high impact force vs no impact force. Now you add in the 'steep project' verbiage to further qualify. Even then, if you are any significant distance above pro, it is very common to swing into an overhanging wall even with a soft catch. I am saying soft catching just lowers the impact force, lowering the potential OR severity of injury. So the typical 'I got injured because of a hard catch' is not always accurate, as if a softer catch would have completely mitigated injury. Or there was an injury, so automatically a hard catch was the cause.

Posting a pic of a shattered leg as 'proof' of a hard catch with no context is ridiculous. Maybe next you can post a radiograph of a healthy leg as proof of a soft catch.

Joe Prescottwrote:

What I said was "What I have an issue with is people very commonly say that they got injured because of a hard catch, as if there would have been zero injury otherwise." Your point of view is that a soft catch PREVENTS you from hitting the wall. If that is your belief (not typically reality), your skiing analogy might hold water, since you are thinking high impact force vs no impact force. Now you add in the 'steep project' verbiage to further qualify. Even then, if you are any significant distance above pro, it is very common to swing into an overhanging wall even with a soft catch. I am saying soft catching just lowers the impact force, lowering the potential OR severity of injury. So the typical 'I got injured because of a hard catch' is not always accurate, as if a softer catch would have completely mitigated injury. Or there was an injury, so automatically a hard catch was the cause.

I give soft catches all the time on very gently overhanging routes, like 10-15*, that keeps the climber 100% completely off the wall. And, this will blow your mind, sometimes on steep routes, you actually do want some movement toward the wall so you don't get stuck out in space everytime, forcing you to have to boink. Being a good belayer takes skill, but anyone can get there super quick, if they comprehend the basic principles involved in falling on lead, and arresting falls.

Again, I believe most people don't want this to be the case, because then there would be direct accountability for injuring or traumatizing someone.

JohnWesely Weselywrote:

 

Imagine tricking yourself into thinking that climbing subvertical routes on glass textured rock while in a state of fear is somehow fun.

Slab climbing is for old men that can't pull hard

@OLH

"Women often won't speak up, and just let things slide." -OLH

So do you still think everything has to be neutralized and politically correct? Or can we just call it like we see it?

Joe Prescottwrote:

You are Willy. Willy Konka - it was your own attempt at a meme... I'm not sure you understand what I am arguing. I'm all for soft catches and rarely is a hard catch warranted. If you are responding "...SOLELY based on some people saying you should never give a soft catch," that is not me, I've never said that. Maybe you assumed my viewpoint because I'm saying soft catching is not a cure-all to avoid injury and you are lumping me with people that are anti-soft catch? Soft catches are effective a lot of the time and should be used often. What I said was "What I have an issue with is people very commonly say that they got injured because of a hard catch, as if there would have been zero injury otherwise." Your point of view is that a soft catch PREVENTS you from hitting the wall. If that is your belief (not typically reality), your skiing analogy might hold water, since you are thinking high impact force vs no impact force. Now you add in the 'steep project' verbiage to further qualify. Even then, if you are any significant distance above pro, it is very common to swing into an overhanging wall even with a soft catch. I am saying soft catching just lowers the impact force, lowering the potential OR severity of injury. So the typical 'I got injured because of a hard catch' is not always accurate, as if a softer catch would have completely mitigated injury. Or there was an injury, so automatically a hard catch was the cause.

Posting a pic of a shattered leg as 'proof' of a hard catch with no context is ridiculous. Maybe next you can post a radiograph of a healthy leg as proof of a soft catch.

Well, we probably agree on more than we disagree, but the proof was not with the X-ray, the proof was with the accounts of observers and the climbers themselves.

edited to add: also I never said that a soft catch would result in no impact, that is totally situation and climb dependent.

Surely someone on here with an Ivy League education can just put this thread to rest...

https://scl.cornell.edu/coe/lindseth-climbing-center/rock-climbing-resources/sport-lead-overview/belaying

I believe we can all surmise what type of catches the Boner Champ administers.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Slab climbing is for old men that can't pull hard

But they don't TR or lead/ fell/hung everything...

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

@OLH

"Women often won't speak up, and just let things slide." -OLH

So do you still think everything has to be neutralized and politically correct? Or can we just call it like we see it?

we could, but then likely someone would block the ability for others to reply.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Slab climbing is for old men that can't pull hard

You've hurt my feelings, Connor. 

A K wrote:

Choose your fighter:

Old man who can't pull hard

Young crusher who can't send

Still pissed that there is no Lead - Redpoint (Aid) option

Kyle Elliottwrote:

You've hurt my feelings, Connor. 

Don't worry, I can't pull hard either, I'm just not old yet and haven't learned how to use my feet

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Still pissed that there is no Lead - Redpoint (Aid) option

That is there - it is called Aid.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

I give soft catches all the time on very gently overhanging routes, like 10-15*, that keeps the climber 100% completely off the wall. And, this will blow your mind, sometimes on steep routes, you actually do want some movement toward the wall so you don't get stuck out in space everytime, forcing you to have to boink. Being a good belayer takes skill, but anyone can get there super quick, if they comprehend the basic principles involved in falling on lead, and arresting falls.

Again, I believe most people don't want this to be the case, because then there would be direct accountability for injuring or traumatizing someone.

Bro, you are either climbing a very specific style, haven't been out and about much, sending densely bolted Red routes, or full of §#!t. No way you can consistently keep climbers that are going for it off the wall, even with your patent-pending soft-catch technique. Maybe you can teach these guys a few things about belaying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbbvCuIyLoI.. And these guys know how to fall, unlike most of us that fling ourselves all over the place. Watch almost any hard attempt by the people at the top, even on the steeps. They usually come into the wall pretty damn hard.

If you could do what you say, your services would be in pretty high demand.

Reality takes commitment, but anyone can get there super quick, if they comprehend the basic principles of observation.

Gotta love these threads. It tells you who NOT to climb with.

I typically ask a new partner, "do you want a soft catch or minimum fall distance? " then I give them an appropriate belay based on the terrain no matter what they say.

This thread ended with AVs meme for me

King Catwrote:

Bro, you are either climbing a very specific style, haven't been out and about much, sending densely bolted Red routes, or full of §#!t. No way you can consistently keep climbers that are going for it off the wall, even with your patent-pending soft-catch technique. Maybe you can teach these guys a few things about belaying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbbvCuIyLoI.. And these guys know how to fall, unlike most of us that fling ourselves all over the place. Watch almost any hard attempt by the people at the top, even on the steeps. They usually come into the wall pretty damn hard.

If you could do what you say, your services would be in pretty high demand.

Reality takes commitment, but anyone can get there super quick, if they comprehend the basic principles of observation.

I know a lot of people that can do what I do, and do it consistently. Im not special. Im sorry you haven't been exposed to someone who had it down.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

I know a lot of people that can do what I do, and do it consistently. Im not special. Im sorry you haven't been exposed to someone who had it down.

Now, I (we) get that you are trolling, especially since you extensively edit or delete your posts... Nice. 

I think he’s taking about one fall from sharma halfway through, but sharma said he forgot to unclip himself from the bolt, so he yarded on a 3ft long loop lol