New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #18

Thanks to everyone for those timeless pictures and stories.  Makes me regret not discovering climbing 50 years ago.

Idaho Bobwrote:

Great winter climbing and culture in El Potrero Chico also.  Easy to get there.  Next trip starts mid-February, contact me for details if interested.  If you head west on a road trip, City of Rocks/Castle Rocks have a lot to offer.  And here in McCall we have the Memorial on Slick Rock, rated the third best sport multi-pitch in the US by Climbing, but that was before Flyboys went up.

Thanks!  Will definitely keep all of this in mind.
Memorial Route looks like a lot of fun.
We did a 9-pitch .10a sport route (linked pitches to cut it to 7) in Greece in '18.  Very memorable.  The Aegean looked fabulous from 1000 ft up.  Now I am hooked on long, well protected moderate routes!!

Idaho Bobwrote:

Great winter climbing and culture in El Potrero Chico also.  Easy to get there.  Next trip starts mid-February, contact me for details if interested.  If you head west on a road trip, City of Rocks/Castle Rocks have a lot to offer.  And here in McCall we have the Memorial on Slick Rock, rated the third best sport multi-pitch in the US by Climbing, but that was before Flyboys went up.

Been to EPC twice and PR once for winter climbing and I think they are not really comparable experiences.  The climbing in EPC is outstanding.  Wins the comparison - no contest.  But everything else goes to PR.  Easier/cheaper to get too (justifiable as a "long weekend" whereas EPC really needs a week and more time and $$ in traveling).  San Juan is an interesting vibrant city.  Monterrey.. well it does have history but the average gringo isn't going to prowl around these days. San Juan has its bad spots too but more obvious and avoidable.  Hildago - yeah its got the local market and you can immerse yourself in the local culture a bit (or think you are) but its limited.  On PR you have so much more variety - beaches, tropical rain forests, historical sites.  If your priority is climb climb climb then get to EPC (the weather will likely be drier too) but if you want more of a well rounded experience with variety I'd vote for PR.  Waiting to hear from the Cayman Brac lovers.  Or Cuba...

The last time I checked, Cayman Brac (which has better climbing than Grand Cayman) is a pain to get to and from.  I would bring the family and spend time on both Grand Cayman and Cayman Brac, if the trip materializes.  
Back when there were direct flights between BOS and The Azores, that looked all around fun too.
Never say never but probably no EPC for me in this lifetime.  :)  

How are the bolts in PR Eric?  I'm sketched by the thought of non stainless in a tropical environment.  I guess I'm a pansy since I use stainless glue-ins in bomber stone.

Ward Smithwrote:

How are the bolts in PR Eric?  I'm sketched by the thought of non stainless in a tropical environment.  I guess I'm a pansy since I use stainless glue-ins in bomber stone.

Mostly they have been upgraded.  Some of the older areas (right near San Juan)  may have some sketchy ones but the newer areas I thought were fine.  They aren't actually sea-cliffs ala Cayman Brac - but definitely tropical jungle.

Lori Milaswrote:

Wow. This thread is starting to remind me of the East Coast crew vs. the West Coast Crew.  So glad ya’ll are getting to know one another and exchanging stories!  Very cool.

Back when one of my kids thought he was black I got to listen to the rap contests between 2Pac and Biggie.  I say West Coast had it going on. (As does Joshua Tree and Yosemite… and I guess now, Spy) 

For a short while my grand dog, Gidget, also had to wear her colors.    She was always game for anything.

West coast all the way baby. Dr Dre's man Knoc'Turnal is in the house...

Ward Smithwrote:

How are the bolts in PR Eric?  I'm sketched by the thought of non stainless in a tropical environment.  I guess I'm a pansy since I use stainless glue-ins in bomber stone.

I’m weary of even stainless in those situations. A good friend was part of the Thaitanium Project about a decade ago, which shared titanium bolts between Thailand, Hawaii and Cayman Brac. My buddy, who was rebolting on Oahu, was pulling outwardly fine looking and fairly new stainless bolts that were completely corroded on the inside. Some actually broke off without much effort, as experienced in person. That said, I believe that there are better stainless alloys out there these days. 

We always heard that the West coast was soft compared to the Gunks.  Maybe so...my first 5.10a leads were the second pitch of Astroman and Moby Dick Center in 79.  But really the biggest difference is the humidity in the East.  We used to climb in the summer in the sun and wondered why everything was so hard, lol.

S. Neohwrote:

Thinking about Puerto Rico this winter for great culture and good winter climbing.  Short, direct flight from BOS helps too.

My family went to San Juan a couple years ago (pre-covid) and had a blast.  Beaches and pools for kid and grandparents, culture, good food, and even a bit of excellent climbing for my wife and I.  Not sure if you've been, but there's a great sport destination like a 20 minute drive from downtown San Juan.  My wife and I left our daughter with the grandparents for a day of climbing.  Slightly overhanging super-textured limestone.  It's a lot of fun.  And while it's a pretty easy approach, it feels very secluded, and like you're in the middle of a jungle.

This shot gives you a sense of the limestone on some of the routes - it's like dripped wax!

And this shot shows how steep some of the routes are.  This is my wife Allison on a fun 11-.  Just up and right of her you can see the chains at the top to see how steep it is:

Let me know if you want any other beta.

GO

Ward Smithwrote:

We always heard that the West coast was soft compared to the Gunks.  Maybe so...my first 5.10a leads were the second pitch of Astroman and Moby Dick Center in 79.  But really the biggest difference is the humidity in the East.  We used to climb in the summer in the sun and wondered why everything was so hard, lol.

True- BITD….. I always found any Gunks climbers were strong AF when they came out this way. Usually lacking footwork skills, but that’s quickly learned.

Lori. You are missing some of your history.  There was this guy Hot Henry who took a trip out west and sent a bunch of people's projects barefoot and drunk.  

Kristian Solemwrote:

West coast all the way baby. Dr Dre's man Knoc'Turnal is in the house...

Oh god that’s funny. I wasn’t expecting that!   

Eric Engbergwrote:

Mostly they have been upgraded.  Some of the older areas (right near San Juan)  may have some sketchy ones but the newer areas I thought were fine.  They aren't actually sea-cliffs ala Cayman Brac - but definitely tropical jungle.

Tropical jungle indeed.  I know you can't always tell from the outside, but the bolts I saw at Nuevo Bayamon didn't look rusty.  I have seen lots worse in Kalymnos.

GO

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Lori. You are missing some of your history.  There was this guy Hot Henry who took a trip out west and sent a bunch of people's projects barefoot and drunk.  

• Yes….. And “Hot Henry” also abandoned his partner, with a horrific injury- in darkest Africa- to fend for himself. Bogus move IMHO 
• 
  

Frank Steinwrote:

I’m weary of even stainless in those situations. A good friend was part of the Thaitanium Project about a decade ago, which shared titanium bolts between Thailand, Hawaii and Cayman Brac. My buddy, who was rebolting on Oahu, was pulling outwardly fine looking and fairly new stainless bolts that were completely corroded on the inside. Some actually broke off without much effort, as experienced in person. That said, I believe that there are better stainless alloys out there these days. 

For sea cliff environments, titanium glue-ins, with no mixed metals, is the best option.

Bullshit, Guy. That's not what happened. He got them both off the mountain in one piece, then went for help. Maybe all his decisions weren't the best in retrospect, but he did not abandon his partner to fend for himself. 

As for Puerto Rico--very pleasnt climbing. I really couldn't/didn't do a detailed inspection of the bolts, but they seemed fine (I know you can't always tell from appearances) and definetly none of them pulled or broke on any of us.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Bullshit, Guy. That's not what happened. He got them both off the mountain in one piece, then went for help. Maybe all his decisions weren't the best in retrospect, but he did not abandon his partner to fend for himself. 

As for Puerto Rico--very pleasnt climbing. I really couldn't/didn't do a detailed inspection of the bolts, but they seemed fine (I know you can't always tell from appearances) and definetly none of them pulled or broke on any of us.

Alan - respectfully disagree- true he didn’t abandon him on the mountain.. rather he abandoned him at a “aid station” so he could get to a trade show on time. Not a good decision at all. I was raised according to a much different code. A code that had the belief that “your a team, you do not abandon your partner ever..” 

I had a friend who needed helo evac due to 2-3rd degree burns… ran 10 miles to get help, ran 10 miles back to let him know, then carried our stuff out cause as you know they don’t lug packs out.

But you can call bullshit on my take anyway - it’s all ancient history anyway. We are all human and  have done dumb things. 

Edit: If you wish to read one side of story 

https://www.amazon.com/Breach-Kilimanjaro-Conquest-Self/dp/0963018809

The Breach is a novel--by definition, a work of fiction. I knew them both at that time, and, while I obviously wasn't with them in Africa, I know that some of the 'background' material in that book is far from accurate. Yes, Henry did leave Africa after Rob was in the hospital, and, I agree, he shouldn't have done that (though it was clear that there was already considerable 'bad blood' between them, so I don't know how much comfort having him around would have been). Still, Henry shouldn't have left at that time, but that is very different then the obvious implications of what you wrote above.

Yes, ancient history, but you were the one who brought it up and I feel that it is important to set the record straight. And, again, I agree--we have all done dumb things.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Alan - respectfully disagree- true he didn’t abandon him on the mountain.. rather he abandoned him at a “aid station” so he could get to a trade show on time. Not a good decision at all. I was raised according to a much different code. A code that had the belief that “your a team, you do not abandon your partner ever..” 

I had a friend who needed helo evac due to 2-3rd degree burns… ran 10 miles to get help, ran 10 miles back to let him know, then carried our stuff out cause as you know they don’t lug packs out.

But you can call bullshit on my take anyway - it’s all ancient history anyway. We are all human and  have done dumb things. 

Edit: If you wish to read one side of story 

https://www.amazon.com/Breach-Kilimanjaro-Conquest-Self/dp/0963018809

I know Alan will say it more diplomatically but the fact is that Henry is one of the few people in the world at that time that could have single handedly gotten Rob down and gone and fetched help.  Quite simply Rob owes his life to him.  Yet he decided to play fast and loose with the facts to create a story that he used (and continues to use) for his own advantage.

The other side of the story:

https://www.amazon.com/Edge-Life-Climbs-Henry-Barber/dp/0910146357