Do Incredible Hand Crack and other Creek trade routes need a bolt

To alleviate some of the back and forth….this is a simple thought experiment/mild complaint AND no one in this thread “pro-bolt” is advocating for lots of bolts…some of you need to reread what was written or just read the thread before you comment, sheesh. The ARGUMENT IS does a well placed bolt at the crux of trade routes, IHC was used a ONE example, help mitigate damage from constant falls by gumbies and creek rats alike thus preserving the life and aesthetics OVERALL of the route.

I have a hard time believing that enough people are whipping on IHC to change the crack, but the shear volume of topropers aren't.

Like, if you're whipping, really WHIPPING off IHC, you're gonna have a really bad trip in the creek. It's authentically hard to fall off a hand jam. Would you just power layback all the way, and the lip is where you run out of steam?

But plenty of people hangdog or top rope with terrible technique. And tape gloves hide the pain of poor technique (that is, gobies).

I don't think IHC needs a bolt, but it could stand to be held up as an onsite-only objective. Be good enough to do it first try, or don't do it at all.

Petsfed 00wrote:

I have a hard time believing that enough people are whipping on IHC to change the crack, but the shear volume of topropers aren't.

Like, if you're whipping, really WHIPPING off IHC, you're gonna have a really bad trip in the creek. It's authentically hard to fall off a hand jam. Would you just power layback all the way, and the lip is where you run out of steam?

But plenty of people hangdog or top rope with terrible technique. And tape gloves hide the pain of poor technique (that is, gobies).

I don't think IHC needs a bolt, but it could stand to be held up as an onsite-only objective. Be good enough to do it first try, or don't do it at all.

The damage isn't from whipping, it's from grinding cams moving as the rope moves through the carabiners. No one is gonna bolt IHC but this is a poor understanding of rock wear 

Sorry for my instagram post and for falling I suppose. I’ll be sure to use those knots like the czech’s do next time I hit a classic at the Creek

Having had a couple drinks, the solution has occurred to me.  

Leave a top rope on it as part of what it's regularly equipped with.

Better option than bolts.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Mocking the climber, publicly. Don't alter the route. 

This is the best approach. Technocrats want to engineer a solution, but human solutions work. 

Shame them.

Just jamming body parts in cracks wears away  sand stone

Robert Lester wrote:

I don't think it matters at all If the all the cracks widen over time. Look at it this way....someday IHC will be an off width, off widths will become chimneys, and finger cracks will become hand cracks. Its all part of the process. Little incipient seams will become finger cracks. Its all good. No worries.

Saving my onsight burn on moonlight buttress for when it's hands

Pat Lightwrote:

The damage isn't from whipping, it's from grinding cams moving as the rope moves through the carabiners. No one is gonna bolt IHC but this is a poor understanding of rock wear 

Let's ban cams. If you wanna climb, you gotta bust out those cow bells. Problem solved - and we just solved the issue of crowds too! Two for one! If there's still too many people, get this: eBikes only once you turn off the highway. 

I gotta million ideas!

John Reevewrote:

Having had a couple drinks, the solution has occurred to me.  

Leave a top rope on it as part of what it's regularly equipped with.

Better option than bolts.

Essentially what I said back in the thread but my solution is a bit more practical.

Long Rangerwrote:

Let's ban cams. If you wanna climb, you gotta bust out those cow bells. Problem solved - and we just solved the issue of crowds too! Two for one! If there's still too many people, get this: eBikes only once you turn off the highway. 

I gotta million ideas!

Yes, they literally did this in (parts of) Czechia, except they included all metal gear in the ban. It's explicitly because of the soft sandstone. It has the exact effect in crowds that you describe, too. 

Not far-fetched in the slightest.

Petsfed 00wrote:

I have a hard time believing that enough people are whipping on IHC to change the crack, but the shear volume of topropers aren't.

Like, if you're whipping, really WHIPPING off IHC, you're gonna have a really bad trip in the creek. It's authentically hard to fall off a hand jam. Would you just power layback all the way, and the lip is where you run out of steam?

But plenty of people hangdog or top rope with terrible technique. And tape gloves hide the pain of poor technique (that is, gobies).

I don't think IHC needs a bolt, but it could stand to be held up as an onsite-only objective. Be good enough to do it first try, or don't do it at all.

IHC is pretty hard for people with smaller hands and shorter arms. It's overhanging cupped hands for many. I barely sent it, and found many of the "5.11"s way easier.

There's a difference between cracks getting wider from use, and from cams gouging. I think it's pretty important to differentiate the two. Supercrack is obviously getting wider and flared, but that's almost all from jamming. Johnny Cat is 0.5 at the lip, but 0.75 inside from all the cam wear.

IHC is the rare example of a hand crack with cam damage. But on the finger cracks it's extremely common.

Bill Czajkowskiwrote:

How about a wear resistant transparent, or color matched, coating on the rock? It would need the right kind of friction properties as well but probably doable with today’s polymer technologies.

That’s called a climbing gym.

Bill Czajkowskiwrote:

How about a wear resistant transparent, or color matched, coating on the rock? It would need the right kind of friction properties as well but probably doable with today’s polymer technologies.

Masonry sealant that is used on concrete. Don't ask me how I know, but I put up formerly chossy sandstone sport routes once :)  

Ward Smithwrote:

Masonry sealant that is used on concrete. Don't ask me how I know, but I put up formerly chossy sandstone sport routes once :)  

Formerly and presently?

I'm a bolt the world guy, and I emphatically state FUCK NO