Cloud Ladder Via Ferrata The Future!

Philip Magistro wrote:

It's entirely on private property.

Where is it located?

For all the folks whining about this particular VF.......

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=via+ferrata+colorado

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=via+ferrata+california

Not bad...only $219 for a 2 pitch climb. 

Terry Parker wrote:

Not bad...only $219 for a 2 pitch climb. 

We'll have to see how much of that ends up going to Zipline Injury Lawyers and their ilk. That thing doesn't look anywhere near steep enough for safe falls. Sounds like potential negligent design and they'll be chopping it themselves at some point.

I wonder if there are any good lines to be had under this thing? They may have made more money in the long run paying some folks to bolt lines and just collect a parking fee.

I already take issue with private land property in general (different topic for another thread lol), so already biased, but also the fact that recreational via ferrata go the opposite direction of free climbing. It's relying almost purely on gear versus attempting to not rely on the gear at all.

Another difference is that climbing isn't all about "nature". It's also about the challenge in and of itself, because it's about consciously choosing the more difficult path for the individual. The goal isn't the top; it's the challenge in getting there.

The real gateway into climbing are the 5.6-7 gym climbs and outdoor climbs once those individuals have networked at the gym or whatever.

At least some via ferrata in the Alps and other areas have historical precedence and originally built to serve a need other than recreation... not so much in this case.

the one in Teluride was a hoot! 

 friends of friends hung out on the park bench up there doing shrooms and watched the Pearl jam concert the week before we were in town.  

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

the one in Teluride was a hoot!  

Free, too. Telluride's Angel's Landing.

Mt. Huashan in China is very popular - wood planks and steel. Alps still best for variety. Nothing wrong with VF in and of itself. All about the end result.

Teluride was free. we did not have the real laynards. if I had screamers I would have outfitted us with them but I did not  so we just had slings and did not fall.  pretty casual for climbers.  basically daisy chain soloing on easy terrain

. 

Pat Light wrote:

What, specifically, makes a via ferrata different from a bolted sport climb?

Is it the drilling?

Is it the scale of the drilling?

Is it the lack of significant danger, after one has purchased or rented an extraordinarily high-tech energy absorbing lanyard?

Is it that unathletic people don't deserve access to the mountains?

Is it that an arbitrary line must be drawn that includes skiers and alpinists and excludes casual American vacationers?

I'm serious. What is the specific, clear hangup here?

For me, it’s the fact that it costs over $200 and you have to do it guided. It’s the same with the one that recently went up at a basin and the gorge. make it like the one in telluride (free and open to the public) and I have no issues at all. 

curt86iroc wrote:

For me, it’s the fact that it costs over $200 and you have to do it guided. It’s the same with the one that recently went up at a basin and the gorge. make it like the one in telluride (free and open to the public) and I have no issues at all. 

I'm with curt. 

I feel like the US really screwed the pooch on in-bounds skiing. I'm not up all the ins and outs of why a day at world famous Chamonix costs $75 compared to $220 at Steamboat Springs, but the end result is in the US play (on often public land) is for the rich only. Tradi can mock the Euros all he wants, but it seems like they're on the right page with who should get to play on public land. 

Vias ferratas are fine; nice when you have guests over. I can only assume there will be a via ferrata scene in the US in the next decades. If the US version is going to look like US skiing, trying to cater to those with more money then sense, I hope that model fails. If it's going to be a nice hike for the average joe over some steeper terrain, I'm all for it. If the two can coexist, better still.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Teluride was free. we did not have the real laynards. if I had screamers I would have outfitted us with them but I did not  so we just had slings and did not fall.  pretty casual for climbers.  basically daisy chain soloing on easy terrain.

Not really daisy chain soloing because the potential fall factor is much greater than 2x.

This post violated Guideline #1 and has been removed.

curt86iroc wrote:

For me, it’s the fact that it costs over $200 and you have to do it guided. It’s the same with the one that recently went up at a basin and the gorge. make it like the one in telluride (free and open to the public) and I have no issues at all. 

This is a perfectly coherent and reasonable response :) 

To emphasize what Allen said… if you are going to do a VF, get the appropriate shock-absorbing lanyard. A VF slip or fall can happen to anyone when least expected (yes, even us climbers) and some VF falls can easily take you into Factor 2, 3, and above range depending on the spacing between anchor points on the vertical sections. I sure don’t ever want to fall 3 meters on to a one meter standard nylon or dyneema sling. That’s the weird thing about VFs… they require less knowledge and skill (generally) than actual rock climbing, but the potential for serious injury is greater than many sport (and even some trad) climbs.

As to paying over $200 for what they offer in Estes Park—count me out. Looks like their customer base is the wealthier vacationer set looking for a thrill. 

Pat Light wrote:

What, specifically, makes a via ferrata different from a bolted sport climb?

Is it the drilling?

Is it the scale of the drilling?

Is it the lack of significant danger, after one has purchased or rented an extraordinarily high-tech energy absorbing lanyard?

Is it that unathletic people don't deserve access to the mountains?

Is it that an arbitrary line must be drawn that includes skiers and alpinists and excludes casual American vacationers?

I'm serious. What is the specific, clear hangup here?

Not much different from sport IMHO. VF is aid?

curt86iroc wrote:

For me, it’s the fact that it costs over $200 and you have to do it guided. It’s the same with the one that recently went up at a basin and the gorge. make it like the one in telluride (free and open to the public) and I have no issues at all. 

Part of the issue here is the high cost of installing a via ferrata.  I'm not sure who bears the burden of installation and maintenance for free VF routes in Europe, but knowing the developers of the ones in EP, I can say that the cost is out of line with what a recreational first ascensionist is likely willing to pay to create an experience for others. 

Also, there is the issue of ethics.  VF requires significant modification to the rock: prohibited in wilderness and frowned upon even by bolting proponents in many areas open to drilling.  

So if someone invests many thousands Of dollars and builds a relationship with landowners, should they then offer free access?

phil, im not in a position tell the developers or land owners what to do. my comment was purely that i disagree with the high barrier to entry cost of the VF. in this instance, it's clear the individuals built the VF as a profit generating attraction and that's fine. it doesn't mean i have to agree with it.

also, food for thought:

https://www.telluridemountainclub.org/via-ferrata/via-ferrata-sustainability-fund/

https://ourayviaferrata.org/about-the-ouray-via-ferrata/

curt, if you want to keep the classic Mountain Project vibe we've worked so hard to curate, you're going to have to stop making reasonable points 

Shout-out to KMAC for employing climbing guides and giving back to the Estes community for the last 30 years.