Best Practice: Extended Rappel vs Belay Loop Rappel?

Is there broad consensus on the better or safer method of rappelling? Why or why not?

- Extended rappel with sling or PAS. Prusik from belay loop.
- Rappel device from belay loop. Prusik in leg loop.

My sense is that the extended rappel is the more modern and preferred method. Its what's covered in Bob Gaine's AMGA Single-Pitch Instructor book and was covered in one of my AAC Accidents in North American Mountaineering issues. Given the choice, it's also what I practice personally.

Wanted to get the pulse of community sense and of the various pro's/con's.

Your leg loop moves relative to the belay loop. The autoblock can get sucked into the device and no longer lock. 

With an extension the distance between the device and the belay loop is fixed so that can't happen. 

Personally, both...or neither. I found with a short friction hitch/third hand on the leg loop it can still jam into the device so I extend the rappel. I've never tried the third hand from the belay loop but I feel like you would have to extend the device even farther to avoid jamming. It also seems like having it in a straight line would make it a little more awkward to handle the brake strand.

Surely more qualified rappeling enthusiasts will refute this. Being honest, I'd rather rap with a Grigri anyways.

There's no "best practice" in climbing, only good practice. I use the leg-loop method.

First time I did the leg-loop method I had my strap doubled backed through the elastic strap holders and when I clipped the carabiner in with my autoblock it went through the top strap only, somehow missing the actual strap that matters. Fortunately, the strap started to come loose before I rapped and I noticed an issue but, it was an eye opener nonetheless. May depend on your harness and how much strap you have left over or if your leg straps are fixed etc but, something to watch for. 

I like an extended rappel, when using an autoblock third hand.

A long time ago, I had a prussik tied above my rappel device. When the hitch locked up, I couldn’t loosen it. I struggled to pull up on the rope and loosen the hitch. Although I was strong, I needed three hands to hold the rope and loosen the hitch.  I was getting exhausted by the time I loosened the hitch and continued down. I think extending a device and a friction hitch too far above the belay loop is a dangerous idea.

I never use an extension. I don’t use an autoblock attached to the leg loop, either. If you want to use some kind of backup, use an auto-locking device, such as a Jul, Smart, Gri, or equivalent. 

Kevin Piarulliwrote:

Being honest, I'd rather rap with a Grigri anyways.

First person to go down raps the Grigri on 1 strand, second raps both strands with an ATC and fireman belay. No extension/autoblock shenanigans necessary. 

I typically only use an extension + backup while solo or on ice since I usually carry a Grigri for any rock route.

The extended rappel is life changing (exaggerating...but not really). After 2 years of using extensions, I tend to believe the extra time is takes me to add the extension is made up by the ease of threading and checking the rappel provided by the extra space and flexibility given. It has made rappelling feel safer and more comfortable for me. I use an autoblock off the belay loop.

I learned without extension and I'm sticking to it. Extending makes it harder for me to weight the system and check it, but to each their own. My prussik is short enough that the odds of it getting sucked into the device are pretty low.

https://youtu.be/NkbX3-H7pLk

Great Vid from Roddy's channel about best practices for rappelling as a team.

TLDW - Always pre-rig to avoids errors. 1st person on rap goes off belay loop with friction hitch off leg loop. 2nd extends their rap so they can be comfortable at the anchor while waiting for the 1st to go down. 2nd receives fireman's belay from 1st rather than using a friction hitch.

This is gonna be my go to method from now on. I've used both extended and off the hip throughout my time climbing, and this seems like it's the most efficient. I'm all about saving time on those transitions, especially when you have lots of raps to be doing off a summit.

Samuel Parkerwrote:

https://youtu.be/NkbX3-H7pLk

Great Vid from Roddy's channel about best practices for rappelling as a team.

Totally. I also watched it after it came out-- rigging rappel in parallel **and** having a buddy-check makes a lot of sense.

I can see how the time saved can really add up over a 5+ pitch series of rappels.

My experience with climbing with folks who use the extended method, and watching people use the extended method is that they seem to spend a lot of time fucking around.

I usually just use a grigri at this point, not even sure where my ATC is anymore. 

That being said, one of the things that kind of suck about extending the rappel is that you need an even longer tether to the anchor itself. This can be pretty uncomfortable at some stances. 

No need for a backup with a grigri :) 

Samuel Parkerwrote:

https://youtu.be/NkbX3-H7pLk

Great Vid from Roddy's channel about best practices for rappelling as a team.

It's hard to take a video seriously when it starts with a recommendation to not pull axially on bolts. That plus the time wasted on anchor building and a fireman's... this is not a good way to rap.

slimwrote:

My experience with climbing with folks who use the extended method, and watching people use the extended method is that they seem to spend a lot of time fucking around.

It's a fairly fast process if you're already using something like a Chain Reactor or a nylon sling with an overhand as your tether anyway and you're already clipped into the anchor with them. Just throw your belay device on in the middle of the tether, feed the rope into the device and make sure you're set/safe to rappel (load it in correct orientation and weight it while still connected to anchor etc.), un-clip the top carabiner and clip it to your belay loop, say goodbye to your partner and rap. 

It's basically the same steps as if one wasn't using an extended device. It's the time to get the belay device on and fed and removing what ever you've got tethering you into the anchor. You're either clipping that to your belay loop or clipping that to your harness or something.

And if you use an autoblock as a third hand it's about the same time to install and check in any scenario (belay loop on extended or leg-loop strap when not etc.)

Of course, if we were to time it, extended might be seconds longer but, to hear you say it takes a "lot of time" seems odd to me.

If I'm not putting on a third hand then I'm just rapping with the belay loop like normal, however.

Disclaimer: tethers not being a substitute for anchoring in with the rope...ymmv.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

No need for a backup with a grigri :) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A8-jsLAZV4

slimwrote:

My experience with climbing with folks who use the extended method, and watching people use the extended method is that they seem to spend a lot of time fucking around.

Correlation or causation? 

In other words, is this because extended raps inherently create a bunch of faff (causality) or because there is a high correlation between climbers who extend raps and climbers who are slow bumblies? I'm not sure what the answer is. Agree with your general observation though.

-----

My experience is that extending the rap is fairly quick and convenient if your are already using a PAS or other such tether in your harness. If you don't use one of these, it is a much greater hassle. I don't use a PAS for regular climbing outings - I don't like the harness clutter of climbing with a PAS rigged up. And I don't want to faff with setting up some sling tether just to rap. So, I do not extend the device.

IMO one of the most important best practices for rapping is to have a 3rd hand...period. where it goes and how you attach your device is more personal preference/situational.

Leg loop. No slipping if your prusik is short enough, and much less noodling around at the belay station. Grigri, of course, is preferable.

I don’t extend and if I use an auto block I attach it to my leg loop. 

"Best practice?" We don't do that here in the States. Go ask a Euro.

But extended is good. You don't need to change anything. Try the leg loop on a chill rap some time if you want to; but as you can see most folks are just doing whatever we learned first.